Two Out - Downplane Scenario

[MakeItHappen 15]

Two Out - Downplane Scenario
(one person version)

What pops into your head when you hear 2-out downplane?

I bet it's a picture of a jumper in the air that has two fully inflated parachutes, stretched out, opposing each other and diving very fast towards the ground.

This description is a third person perspective.

I think that a better 'picture in your head for a personal downplane' should be something like 'my main is out in front of me and diving down to the ground'.
Then as verification, look over your shoulder to see what the reserve is doing.
Chances are that the reserve is open and inflated, with or without line twists, and also diving towards the ground.

This description is a first person perspective.

Why am I talking about this? Part 1

Fifteen years ago, a friend of mine 'landed' a personal downplane and lived to talk about it.
It was a low main pull at the same time the aad fired.
The main dived down in front and my friend said she did not know she had two-out.

I thought to myself, how can that be?
It's so obvious that there were two out and in a downplane.
But that was because I had the third person perspective.
I saw it from the ground. It was obvious.
Then I wondered, if the first person perspective was somehow 'not so obvious'.

I came to the conclusion that a personal downplane, first person, perspective was not as obvious as the third person perspective we all think about when we hear 'two-out downplane'.

So I added to my thought process, if the main suddenly dives down in front of me, check over my shoulder to see what the reserve is doing.

Hopefully, if I am ever in a personal downplane, this might help me react properly to the situation. Even more hopefully, this theory will never be tested by me. ;)

Why am I talking about this? Part 2

This weekend, another friend of mine 'landed' a personal downplane.
Only this time my friend did not live.

How Bud got into a downplane may never be known.
It may have been this or that, like a reserve handle floater that popped the reserve on opening, but the reserve didn't deploy until later.
Or a reserve handle floater that got snagged later during descent.

I'm pretty sure Bud, as I, would opt to cutaway the main in a personal downplane situation as opposed to landing the downplane -even if the reserve had line twists.

I think Bud did not know he had a downplane.
He was just trying to control the main, same as my friend from 15 years ago.
He did not think about cutting away because he did not know the reserve was out.
All he knew was that the main was doing something funky and was too low to cutaway with the assumption that the reserve was still in the container.

The lesson that one should take away is
- to learn what a personal downplane looks like from the first person perspective
- check for reserve deployment
- decide what to do after full assessment of your canopy configuration and altitude


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[kallend 1,621]

Thanks, Jan.

I confess to never having thought that the 1st Person might be unaware that the reserve was out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[diablopilot 2]

I have had a two out scenario and I knew immediately what it was, however I see your point about it being a bit unique.

Just throwing this out there, but in my mind, say I DON'T immediately know, my flow chart of malfunctions is going to go to the breakaway and deploy a reserve limb when the main canopy does not pass a canopy control check (square with slider down, stable, and steerable).

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ILUVCHUTERS 1]

This is a really important post.
I am going to add this to my list of things to talk about when discussing EP's and two out scenarios.

I have also had a two out - luckily for me it was a biplane, but I wonder if things would have been different if I'd found myself in the situation you just described.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

[DSE 3]

Thank you for a different perspective, Jan. Like John, I'd not considered a potential of not being aware of another canopy out/behind.
Bud had a two out once before; I was there to witness it. He safely landed over near Gary Douris' old place. Having a second one causes me to wonder about his gear.

[xsniper 1]

Thanks so much for the thought process. I will defiantly have this in my "tool box". So very sorry for your (our) loss.

[dthames 0]

Good post and good suggestion, so I am not arguing.

I have not been in that situation but I would think with only one out, if the main were down in front of you, your legs could not be pointed down, toward Earth. Or at least not for long. With two out, I could see that your feet might be more toward earth. I mean with the connection point at your shoulders, you are going to be following or hanging from something(s).

Wouldn't that also be a bit of a clue?

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[RiggerLee 61]

Has Jim Cowan published his lecture on Unusual Emergency Procedures? He gave a very interesting talk at PIA. A good bit of it concerned two outs. He brings up some interesting points concerning how the canopies can deploy and how that can affect your emergency procedures. For example If a reserve deploys into a sniveling main. The slider is a wide square target spreading the four line groups up to 2 ft apart. When the reserve PC goes up into this it can hit the bottom of the slider and go one of four ways. Now it may go out the back resulting in the scenario that every one normally talks about and trains for. but it can also for instance go out through the side between the line groups of one riser. It then pulls the bag through and you get some thing that looks exactly the same. It can be a nice stable side by side and fly perfectly. In fact it would probable be even more stable then the first scenario. But think about what would happen if you cut away the main? This is not theoretical. He actually had this happen to him. Fortunately he decided to land it. It wasn't till he got on the ground that he realized what had actually happened. He goes on to talk about how these canopies can behave and ways of flying them if cutting away is not an option. The lecture covers a number of other things as well and is well worth watching.

Any body got a link?

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[monkycndo 0]

Lee,

That seminar at PIA was great. I still remember "Left on left on left". I had a two out on my 58th jump due to loss of altitude awareness. Pitched my main and had AAD fire as main sniveled. Was lucky to have it stay as a biplane. Landed both.

I made a stupid mistake and was lucky it didn't go from bad to worse. Had a mentor that day remind me many times to "Never do that again!!!" Thanks Ice Man.

I am thankful I had good training in my FJC from Raff as what to do when you find yourself under a two out. It worked. Remarkable how one event can make you very altitude aware for the rest of your skydiving time in sport.

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[sundevil777 93]

What does left on left on left mean?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[monkycndo 0]

sundevil777

What does left on left on left mean?

This applies to a biplane condition of a two out. If you find yourself under a two out and the two canopies are not entangled and want to cut away to prevent a possible downplane, think left on left on left.*

Put your left hand on the left rear riser of the left canopy. Right hand goes on cut away pillow.

Pull the left rear riser to get the left canopy to separate from the right canopy. Once there is complete clearance between the canopies, let go of left riser and quickly follow by pulling cutaway pillow. If you don't let go of the riser, and the left canopy is the main, the riser will be ripped out of your hand when you cutaway.

*If you have a Racer with a cross connector, follow instructions of the manufacturer prior to cutting away.

editted to make a bit clearer.

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[xsniper 1]

Thanks for that explanation. Defiantly another tool.

[jumpsalot-2 2]

Would this still apply to a side by side ? Also would it tend to downplane if held too long ? You would of course already be ready to cut-away with your right hand. Altitude permitting.

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