1 1
brenthutch

Biden’s war on fossil fuel and gas price timeline

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

That is hyperbole. The economy is adapting and will be fine. The reason prices are so high is the fallout of the war and the Covid recovery. It has absolutely nothing to do with Keystone or Biden.

The economy adapted to higher energy prices by contracting 1.4% in the first quarter.

With regard to Biden….

https://barr.house.gov/_cache/files/1/7/17ec008b-f7ea-49e6-b614-ea9b4dd12d6f/16871653E745FF6D04D065F4E6DE8623.a-promise-kept-biden-s-war-on-energy-final-002-.pdf

Read it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Maybe instead of active shooter drills they should have causation and correlation drills in American schools.

Higher fuel costs can lead to inflation which can lead to higher interest rates (like we are seeing right now) which can lead to a recession. 
Higher fuel costs reduce disposable income which may lead to reduced consumer spending which may lead to a recession. 

It’s not an iron clad law, but it does happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billvon said:

Yes, they might.  A great way to reduce gas prices is to reduce demand.  EV's will do that.

Re: "below average income people can't afford them."  The average new gas car is $47,000, indicating that a very large number of Americans can afford that.  You can get a new EV for below $20K after incentives, or $27K without incentives.  That tells me most Americans who buy new cars actually can afford them.

But a lot of Americans buy used cars.  The average used car price is $28,000, indicating that even those buyers can afford new EV's if they want them.  However, a better choice would probably be a used EV for $10K or so,

Now, that doesn't mean everyone should run out and buy an EV.  They won't work for some people (the semi-mythical traveling salesman who drives 1000 miles every day and can't spend an extra hour charging.)  EV's are in such high demand that that's impossible anyway.  But if we can get (say) half of the US driving them in ten years, then we reduce gas demand (and prices) reduce the amount of CO2 we emit, AND will be able to export a huge amount of oil.  Sounds like a win/win.

 The sale price for an EV, on average, was $60,054 in February. That compared to $45,596 on average for all new vehicles, including electric ones, according to data from Edmonds.

Your payment on a $60,000 EV over 5 years with 5 grand down is almost $1100 per month.

These might be numbers that work in CA but not here in flyover country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, airdvr said:

Your payment on a $60,000 EV over 5 years with 5 grand down is almost $1100 per month.

These might be numbers that work in CA but not here in flyover country.

If the Republicans have taught me anything is that those who are poor are simply too lazy to work for the American Dream.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While you guys may be right in your analysis, the average voter will likely see expensive gas, high inflation, supply shortages, and political candidates ready to exploit the situation. I get the feeling that the populace might just take a chance on letting the other team at bat come election time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, airdvr said:

All of you are missing the mark on this one.  Gas prices like this will kill an economy.  I get that they want us to use more EVs but the below average income won't afford a new EV and the used ones are just now hitting the market in numbers that could have any effect.

Pretty bold moves when less than 1% of vehicles in the US are electric.

Hi airdvr,

Re:  Gas prices like this will kill an economy.

As others have said, not so.  I first went to Europe in '61.  The English paid very high prices for fuel & an insanely ( what I thought at the time ) high road tax.  I could not understand how they could live with taxes like that.  Boy, what I did not know.

While these high prices will slow the growth of GDP, it will not will kill an economy.

At least, not as I define it.

I am quite sure that it will have a negative effect on one's stock portfolio.  

Jerry Baumchen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, airdvr said:

 The sale price for an EV, on average, was $60,054 in February. That compared to $45,596 on average for all new vehicles, including electric ones, according to data from Edmonds.

Yep, if you want a Tesla.  If you want a Leaf, it's $19,900 for the base model after incentives.

If you are looking for a way to get around cheaply, the Leaf is the way to go.  If you can afford a $47K (average) new gas car then you probably don't care much about gas prices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

As others have said, not so.  I first went to Europe in '61.  The English paid very high prices for fuel & an insanely ( what I thought at the time ) high road tax.  I could not understand how they could live with taxes like that.  Boy, what I did not know.

Yep.  Other countries are laughing at us now complaining about $5 a gallon gasoline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

If the Republicans have taught me anything is that those who are poor are simply too lazy to work for the American Dream.

Not if they are male white and rural, that type of poor isn't lazy; they are being oppressed, and purposely left behind, by minorities, women, the woke, etc.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

can lead to higher interest rates (like we are seeing right now) which can lead to a recession. 

Yes which is why today, when it became clear the Fed is poised to increase rates even further than the market anticipated, the market crash.....oh wait, the DOW actually went up almost 200 points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DougH said:

Not if they are male white and rural, that type of poor isn't lazy; they are being oppressed, and purposely left behind, by minorities, women, the woke, etc.

Hi Doug,

And, let us not forget that they are being replaced.

Jerry Baumchen

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Yes which is why today, when it became clear the Fed is poised to increase rates even further than the market anticipated, the market crash.....oh wait, the DOW actually went up almost 200 points.

The DOW is not the economy 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Right, the DOW is where you put your money when it becomes clear a recession is on the way.

With the recent sell off the DOW is close to bear market territory, the recession is already priced in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, brenthutch said:

With the recent sell off the DOW is close to bear market territory, the recession is already priced in.

 

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

can lead to higher interest rates (like we are seeing right now) which can lead to a recession. 

So when the Fed signals even higher interest rates...the DOW should not go up right? At least not based on what you are saying.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep, if you want a Tesla.  If you want a Leaf, it's $19,900 for the base model after incentives.

If you are looking for a way to get around cheaply, the Leaf is the way to go.  If you can afford a $47K (average) new gas car then you probably don't care much about gas prices.

Base is $27,400 for a clown car.  Great.  $7,500 incentive is simply a tax credit so the price remains $27,400.  Here in flyover country dealers are up-charging based on limited supplies.  Unfortunately the folks hurt most by the gas prices are the ones driving the $500 hoopty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, airdvr said:

...  Unfortunately the folks hurt most by the gas prices are the ones driving the $500 hoopty.

Its great that you think about the poor. thanks.

The US gas average is $1.24 a liter. Here are the world prices. All in US prices. Norway is $2.58 a liter 69% of Norway's oil production is exported, 1.2 million barres a day. Norway's sovereign wealth fund earned $177 billion in interest last year. It represents the investment from oil sales and sits at $1.2 trillion.

In 2020 more than 70 percent of all cars sold in Norway were electric ones. I don't understand why Norway isn't in permanent recession.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Base is $27,400 for a clown car.  Great.  $7,500 incentive is simply a tax credit so the price remains $27,400.  Here in flyover country dealers are up-charging based on limited supplies.  Unfortunately the folks hurt most by the gas prices are the ones driving the $500 hoopty.

Hi airdvr,

No one forced them to buy a car that they cannot afford to put gas into.

Maybe they should have thought of that prior to purchase, no?

I'll cry no tears for them.

Jerry Baumchen

Image result for Jacked up Pickup. Size: 103 x 100. Source: www.pinterest.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

No one forced them to buy a car that they cannot afford to put gas into.

Maybe they should have thought of that prior to purchase, no?

In too much of the country, a car is a requirement to get between an affordable place to live and any place to work. And much of the country has either no or very limited public transportation  

Wendy P. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

In too much of the country, a car is a requirement to get between an affordable place to live and any place to work. And much of the country has either no or very limited public transportation  

Wendy P. 

Hi Wendy,

That fails to address my argument.

Almost always a cheaper car to own & operate is an option.  Motor scooter, anyone?

Jerry Baumchen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I work as a courier so I actually use my truck for a truck. My last truck, a small used 4 cylinder was 16K. My fuel reimbursement barely covers actual fuel right now. The same as most trucking and delivery operations. Just lifting federal and state taxes would reduce gas by over a $1 a gallon. CA generated $97 Billion! in surplus tax revenue last year and the Governor is still planning to continue the gas tax regular increases. Its absolutely galling to watch an out-of-touch with reality Governor gloating and a President telling me "I get it. Your frustrated!" They don't get it. I'll remember at the polls though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, airdvr said:

Base is $27,400 for a clown car.  Great.  $7,500 incentive is simply a tax credit so the price remains $27,400. 

Most people don't think that way.  People buy things all the time that have rebates and discounts after the fact - and they do indeed see that as a real, lower price.  Hence the real, final price you pay is $19,900.

And I had an even earlier Leaf for a long time.  If your goal is transportation - you want to get to work and school, shop and pick up your kids - they are great cars. They are reliable, cheap and they work well for what they are designed for.  But if you want a large masculine status symbol with a loud exhaust and a really big grille, then feel free to pay for it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

1 1