Mental Health, Guns, Mental Health

[kallend 1,623]

36 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

They certainly are Bill, I believe they are somewhat skewed though when it comes down to legal and responsible ownership compared to illegally possessed/stolen and used to commit crime.

Gun manufacturers don't sell to criminals.  EVERY criminally owned gun started out in the hands of a legal owner.  The legal owner community is 100% responsible for those statistics.

[billvon 2,396]

21 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

 you cannot effect a rescue if you just blindly go in to a situation where you will be taking fire from a rifle. Running into a bullet renders you ineffective at an rescue attempt.

That seems to suggest that the "good guy with a gun" approach to prevention of school shootings will not work if the good guys are intelligent.

[porpoishead 5]

9 minutes ago, kallend said:

For obvious reasons - they destroy your claims.

What claims would those be Kallend?? What have I claimed that those statists “destroy”? Please advise 

[porpoishead 5]

8 minutes ago, kallend said:

Gun manufacturers don't sell to criminals.  EVERY criminally owned gun started out in the hands of a legal owner.  The legal owner community is 100% responsible for those statistics.

I wouldn’t say every criminally owned gun started out that way, so that absolute number of 100% is incorrect 

[porpoishead 5]

4 minutes ago, billvon said:

That seems to suggest that the "good guy with a gun" approach to prevention of school shootings will not work if the good guys are intelligent.

As I stated bill there is a difference when you are fighting for your life or performing a rescue or clearing a building.

[kallend 1,623]

Just now, porpoishead said:

I wouldn’t say every criminally owned gun started out that way, so that absolute number of 100% is incorrect 

Enlighten me.  How did a criminally owned gun start out as an illegal weapon from the instant it was manufactured.

[olofscience 420]

30 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

Truth be told if Billy’s girls and flo could all live, then I would shut it down and turn in all of my firearms. 

If you're willing to do that, then would you be willing to:

1. get 3 character references that show you're of good character
2. get annual professional mental health evaluations
3. get annual inspections of your gun storage,
4. demonstrate competency in handling and maintenance of firearms

Plus, you'd even get to keep your guns!

If you passed all that, I mean. You'd pass easily, right?

Because Billy wouldn't have - and him and his family might still be alive and getting help.

[wmw999 2,120]

7 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

I wouldn’t say every criminally owned gun started out that way, so that absolute number of 100% is incorrect 

Ghost guns would probably be the only exception, and most of them are made from legally-manufactured things. Unless you're defining "legal" by how it entered the US; I suppose there are some that also entered illegally, kind of like all the guns that leave the US for Mexico. But the number is vanishingly small when compared to the number of guns in the US.

Wendy P.

[wmw999 2,120]

1 hour ago, porpoishead said:

If you suspect that you or someone you know has a mental health issue please reach out and attempt to help.

People with mental health issues often don't think they have them. Very often.

Wendy P.

[porpoishead 5]

14 minutes ago, kallend said:

Enlighten me.  How did a criminally owned gun start out as an illegal weapon from the instant it was manufactured.

John you care to enlighten me on “claims” you accuse me of that bills statistics destroy? Or do you just want to baselessly attack me and move on to the next thing?

[kallend 1,623]

3 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

John you care to enlighten me on “claims” you accuse me of that bills statistics destroy? Or do you just want to baselessly attack me and move on to the next thing?

Why are you avoiding my questions?  

 

[JoeWeber 2,297]

20 minutes ago, billvon said:

That seems to suggest that the "good guy with a gun" approach to prevention of school shootings will not work if the good guys are intelligent.

In Uvalde the good guys had not only guns but badges, war suits, helmets, and pay stubs from promising to be the solution. But they weren't. It seems they never are. But now, if only the teachers had guns, you know, on chest slings like Navy Seals and Glocks in holsters ready to go because for damn sure rifling through the desk drawer trying to find the gun and a clip would sort of defeat the purpose.

[kallend 1,623]

13 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Ghost guns would probably be the only exception, and most of them are made from legally-manufactured things. Unless you're defining "legal" by how it entered the US; I suppose there are some that also entered illegally, kind of like all the guns that leave the US for Mexico. But the number is vanishingly small when compared to the number of guns in the US.

Wendy P.

Under U.S. federal law, the creation and possession of firearms for non-commercial purposes (i.e., personal use) has always been legal, and a license is generally not required.  A ghost gun is only illegal if the owner is forbidden to own a firearm (e.g. a felon).

Edited May 26, 2022 by kallend

[porpoishead 5]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

Why are you avoiding my questions?  

 

Why are you avoiding mine? You accused me of making claims, what have I accused you of?

[porpoishead 5]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

Under U.S. federal law, the creation and possession of firearms for non-commercial purposes (i.e., personal use) has always been legal, and a license is generally not required.

There’s an example John, how’s that 100% looking?

[kallend 1,623]

Here is your claim:
I wouldn’t say every criminally owned gun started out that way, so that absolute number of 100% is incorrect.

I asked you to explain, and you have avoided doing so. 

You also declined to explain the graph I posted.

[kallend 1,623]

2 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

There’s an example John, how’s that 100% looking?

It's not illegal to make, as I explained, so the 100% is looking good.  Is English your first language?

[porpoishead 5]

Just now, kallend said:

Here is your claim:
I wouldn’t say every criminally owned gun started out that way, so that absolute number of 100% is incorrect.

I asked you to explain, and you have avoided doing so. 

You also declined to explain the graph I posted.

I believe you accused me prior to that post, and I mistakenly said bill posted the statistics you are asking me to explain. I don’t feel the need to dispute those numbers John.

[porpoishead 5]

1 minute ago, kallend said:

It's not illegal to make, as I explained, so the 100% is looking good.  Is English your first language?

Actually Spanish and Italian are John I actually learned English last 

[porpoishead 5]

Just now, porpoishead said:

Actually Spanish and Italian are John I actually learned English last 

Is this a problem in a gun debate?

[porpoishead 5]

If a criminal decides to fabricate or build a firearm from pieces and parts then obviously the firearm did not start out as a legally manufactured firearm, is math your first language?

[porpoishead 5]

See how that works John?

[billvon 2,396]

30 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

As I stated bill there is a difference when you are fighting for your life or performing a rescue or clearing a building.

I agree.  But again, unless every single child has a gun, then the "good guy with a gun" thing doesn't work, does it?  The next school shooter walks into a classroom, shoots the teacher, then shoots all 25 kids.  The other "good guys with guns" do as you describe - wait 40 minutes until they are sure they can enter the room safely, then they do so - for all the reasons you listed.

That's the #1 reason that more guns equals more homicide.  The crazy guy with the gun will always have the advantage.

Quote

I wouldn’t say every criminally owned gun started out that way, so that absolute number of 100% is incorrect 

You could come up with some bizarre scenario where a gun was MADE to be illegal by some manufacturer/hobbyist and sold that way, and I am sure you can find an example.  So let's say it's 99%.  That is still the vast, vast majority of guns used for crime.  They all started out as legal guns.  99 out of every 100.

[porpoishead 5]

If a criminal obtains a firearm deceitfully, or builds a firearm for criminal purposes then,

38 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

EVERY criminally owned gun started out in the hands of a legal owner.  The legal owner community is 100% responsible for those statistics.

I don’t see how this is accurate 

[porpoishead 5]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

I agree.  But again, unless every single child has a gun, then the "good guy with a gun" thing doesn't work, does it?  The next school shooter walks into a classroom, shoots the teacher, then shoots all 25 kids.  The other "good guys with guns" do as you describe - wait 40 minutes until they are sure they can enter the room safely, then they do so - for all the reasons you listed.

That's the #1 reason that more guns equals more homicide.  The crazy guy with the gun will always have the advantage.

You could come up with some bizarre scenario where a gun was MADE to be illegal by some manufacturer/hobbyist and sold that way, and I am sure you can find an example.  So let's say it's 99%.  That is still the vast, vast majority of guns used for crime.  They all started out as legal guns.  99 out of every 100.

I agree bill, I never made any claims to suggest arming children or teachers for that matter.