Mental Health, Guns, Mental Health

[olofscience 420]

1 minute ago, porpoishead said:

No clarification is required on my behalf, thank you for the illustrations 

Sorry if people are mistaken but this is actually from XKCD.com, my mistake for not citing the source.

[wmw999 2,121]

2 hours ago, porpoishead said:

Anyone else wants to know what I really think about all of this, you can join me on an unmoderated forum where I can really tell y’all what I think.

Hiding within these forums where free speech can be censored doesn’t do anyone any good. 

 

 

What is your definition of free speech? Being able to call someone an asshole or a pussy? Being able to rail against minorities using the N-word? Going unchallenged when saying that Hillary Clinton eats babies, Donald Trump is worse than Hitler, or that this should be a Christian country? Never being told “you’re wrong?” Always having people agree that the country has gone to hell because of the liberals?

Ive never been constrained by the rules on dz.com, but then I don’t find that calling people names or pejoratives helps a conversation. Conversations are about talking with each other — no-rules shouting matches are much more about talking at each other. No thanks, been there, got sick of it.

It’s all well and good to say that others have open minds. It’s much more important to have an open mind one’s self. Maybe accept that others have reasons for their beliefs and actions that are consistent with how they are — that acceptance, even when you can’t understand how they can see the same fact set and come to a different conclusion — that’s an open mind

Unmoderated also means the 1-10 people a day joining the forum to advertise drugs, love spells, furniture, accounting services, fake passports — those are also free speech, right?

Wendy P.

 

[kallend 1,623]

On 5/24/2022 at 8:15 AM, wmw999 said:

Please tread very carefully on this topic. There is nothing wrong with the OP in this thread, but just as actual participants on dz.com cannot be attacked, let’s not get too sanctimonious about this event. It’s sad, shocking, and personal to lots of people here. I never met BV in person, but yeah, he worked hard for his life. 

Wendy P. 

Well, I've no intention of being "nice" about Billy Vance.  He's a murderer. Period.

And he, and others with the attitudes he had expressed who've posted in this thread, are the enablers of murderers of little children in their classrooms.

I find them sickening in the way they rationalize their love of killing machines.

[jakee 1,254]

19 hours ago, olofscience said:

See? I've pretty much just described the process for getting a gun in the UK. Where even the police don't carry guns - but you would theoretically be able to.

I don’t like the character reference one the way it’s done here. I signed a reference for a friend of mines shotgun licence and IIRC the requirement was to be a professional person such as lawyer, doctor, accountant etc that the applicant knows personally/socially. I thought that was extremely elitist - clearly much easier for some people than others to get regardless of how well suited they are to gun ownership.

[gowlerk 1,911]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:13 PM, porpoishead said:

And again I don’t give a shit what they do in other countries I live in the United States of America the land of the free

Yes I get it, and I'm pretty sure we all do. You are a gun rights absolutist and no number of innocent victims will change your mind. A real "from my dead cold hands"type.  A perfect example of the problem. What I don't get is why you feel the need to make dozens of short posts to let us all know. Most likely events like the ones occurring make you feel threatened. Billy's attitude was a lot like yours, and I'm certain he would have stood up and claimed that he would never misuse a weapon. And like you he probably believed it.

[DougH 270]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Ive never been constrained by the rules on dz.com, but then I don’t find that calling people names or pejoratives helps a conversation. Conversations are about talking with each other — no-rules shouting matches are much more about talking at each other. No thanks, been there, got sick of it.

No kidding! Moderating isn't censorship or curating. It doesn't hinder the exchange of ideas, unless your idea of exchange ideas is foaming at the mouth in an unaccountable manner. 

It is hard enough to have substantive conversations with people right now. Lots of cognitive dissonance, way too many strongly held convictions loosely supported. I fail to see how it would help if we were able to insult people and discount arguments because they came from "Republitards and Demorats".

Besides, the moderation on here is basically the Michelob Ultra of moderation. Plenty of posters on here demonstrate that you can have zero intellectual integrity in what you post if you can avoid direct name calling and outright slurs. This isn't a dig at our fine moderators, just an observation on how far they are from being heavy handed. 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by DougH

[Phil1111 910]

2 minutes ago, jakee said:

I don’t like the character reference one the way it’s done here. I signed a reference for a friend of mines shotgun licence and IIRC the requirement was to be a professional person such as lawyer, doctor, accountant etc that the applicant knows personally/socially. I thought that was extremely elitist - clearly much easier for some people than others to get regardless of how well suited they are to gun ownership.

In Canada its family & friends. No history of violence permitted. A drunk driving conviction is ok. But any violence is the end of the application.

While Ar-15s and versions of it are on a pre-ban order.i.e. not banned now but can't be sold, or used.  There is a whole new industry making guns that are very similar. But with different names so they are legal for sale.

Personally I think that you should be licensed for shotguns, rifles, handguns, Assault/weapons/Ar-15s All separately. With a year or a couple between each type of endorsement/ownership.

"Licenses to acquire a weapon in Switzerland require the applicant to be at least 18 years old with no criminal record, and must have no cause for suspicion that the weapon will be used for harm or violence. An acquisitions license is valid for 6-9 months and is usually valid only for the acquisition of a single weapon. Licenses are doled out on a local level, and they are not given lightly. Cantonal police, who approve or deny licenses, are known to consult psychiatrists, require proof that the applicant is not addicted to drugs or alcohol, contact police in any cantons where the applicant has lived previously, and even interview personal acquaintances before granting an acquisition license.

Carrying licenses can be obtained for gun owners who want to take their gun with them on a daily basis, but they must first demonstrate a need for the weapon (self-protection or protection of others), and pass both a theoretical and practical exam regarding gun safety and usage. The practical exam tests the user’s ability to load, unload, and operate the gun, and the theoretical section tests knowledge of types of weapons and ammunitions, security and safety measures, and perhaps most importantly, gun laws and consequences of criminal acts with a firearm. Most gun owners in Switzerland don’t have a carrying license unless they require it for work, such as in the case of police officers and security guards."

[porpoishead 5]

35 minutes ago, kallend said:

Well, I've no intention of being "nice" about Billy Vance.  He's a murderer. Period.

And he, and others with the attitudes he had expressed who've posted in this thread, are the enablers of murderers of little children in their classrooms.

I find them sickening in the way they rationalize their love of killing machines.

Billy was a murderer he’s dead now, what he did is inexcusable and unacceptable.

the rest of your accusations are equally unacceptable and reprehensible.

In my opinion, if you are going to tell someone that they are sickening and  an enabler of murdering children then you should call that person out by name that way there are no misunderstandings.

 

 

[porpoishead 5]

29 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes I get it, and I'm pretty sure we all do. You are a gun rights absolutist and no number of innocent victims will change your mind. A real "from my dead cold hands"type.  A perfect example of the problem. What I don't get is why you feel the need to make dozens of short posts to let us all know. Most likely events like the ones occurring make you feel threatened. Billy's attitude was a lot like yours, and I'm certain he would have stood up and claimed that he would never misuse a weapon. And like you he probably believed it.

I am nothing like billy Vance, my attitude is completely different. 
 

please do not refer to me as anything like billy vance I find it highly offensive 

Billys attitude and beliefs were more aligned with you and people exactly like you.

Edited May 27, 2022 by porpoishead

[Stumpy 256]

35 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

51 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

 

I am nothing like billy Vance, my attitude is completely different.

Nope - a lot of what you have said is EXACTLY the same. You just think you are a "gun guy" so therefore that makes it OK.

[olofscience 420]

34 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

please do not refer to me as anything like billy vance I find it highly offensive 

Surely a person that would pass stringent mental health tests such as you, will manage to keep a cool head in a forum right?

Your word is all we've got, and no amount of saying "I'm THIS and THAT" is going to work better than actual proof.

[porpoishead 5]

21 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

Nope - a lot of what you have said is EXACTLY the same. You just think you are a "gun guy" so therefore that makes it OK.

Again I am absolutely nothing like billy.

And again billy used to like to parrot a lot of different things to get a rise out of people.

billy and his entire family vote for democrats, I’ve not once not ever in my entire life have voted for a democrat and likely never will.

billys beliefs and attitudes are more aligned with you and people exactly like you and in the end, he turned out to be a murdering scumbag killing women and children

anyone that can attest to the exchanges between billy and myself can tell you that we were complete polar opposites, I am nothing like billy Vance and never will be.

[porpoishead 5]

30 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Surely a person that would pass stringent mental health tests such as you, will manage to keep a cool head in a forum right?

Your word is all we've got, and no amount of saying "I'm THIS and THAT" is going to work better than actual proof.

Have I not kept a cool head in a forum so far??

or you just feel like calling me out for the sake of calling me out, or what???

I don’t need to prove anything to you or nobody else. I know what I am not, and that is what I stated. I am nothing like billy Vance.

Billy had a poor attitude in general, he was a shit stirrer, a trouble maker, a democrat, and in the end a murdering scumbag. I can unequivocally 100% without a doubt can say that I am none of those things and am nothing like billy.

 

[porpoishead 5]

Stumpy please do not make any assumptions on what I think, if you would like to know what I think you can ask me and I will reply directly to avoid any misunderstandings or mischaracterizations. 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

1 hour ago, porpoishead said:

In my opinion, if you are going to tell someone that they are sickening and  an enabler of murdering children then you should call that person out by name that way there are no misunderstandings.

Why? This isn't about one person.

That is the biggest issue in many of these conversations. People who oppose any form of gun legislation tend to look at only the impact on themselves, not the impact on the greater society.

To your earlier comment regarding not being able to properly discuss this issue cause you aren't free to say what you want. That's grade A bullshit. Really the only restriction is on not making personal attacks, otherwise you are more than welcome to state whatever opinion you might have.

[porpoishead 5]

4 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Why? This isn't about one person.

That is the biggest issue in many of these conversations. People who oppose any form of gun legislation tend to look at only the impact on themselves, not the impact on the greater society.

To your earlier comment regarding not being able to properly discuss this issue cause you aren't free to say what you want. That's grade A bullshit. Really the only restriction is on not making personal attacks, otherwise you are more than welcome to state whatever opinion you might have.

My opinion is that you slander my country a whole lot Justin. I’m proud to be an American and I am glad that my country is nothing like yours. 

[gowlerk 1,911]

1 hour ago, porpoishead said:

please do not refer to me as anything like billy vance I find it highly offensive 

You share many things in common with Billy. Did you know him personally?

[porpoishead 5]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

You share many things in common with Billy. Did you know him personally?

Are you high on drugs??

[SkyDekker 1,122]

11 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

My opinion is that you slander my country a whole lot Justin. I’m proud to be an American and I am glad that my country is nothing like yours. 

And I am quite happy my country isn't like yours. Difference is that Canada doesn't have a history of telling the world that everything we do is the best ever and that the world should be just like us. Not sure why people tend to feel that they can state they are the best at everything and then get upset when that gets criticized.

And what I said about the thoughts some people have about the 2nd amendment and the deep state isn't contained to your country. We have idiots who believe the same thing living in Canada.

[gowlerk 1,911]

2 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

Are you high on drugs??

Again, did you know him personally? (I will ignore the drug question)

[porpoishead 5]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

And I am quite happy my country isn't like yours. Difference is that Canada doesn't have a history of telling the world that everything we do is the best ever and that the world should be just like us. Not sure why people tend to feel that they can state they are the best at everything and then get upset when that gets criticized.

And what I said about the thoughts some people have about the 2nd amendment and the deep state isn't contained to your country. We have idiots who believe the same thing living in Canada.

I don’t believe in all of those bullshit conspiracies 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Again, did you know him personally? (I will ignore the drug question)

Yes Alex knew him personally, they communicated almost daily and they have been shooting and hunting together. I happen to know this separately, but it was also laid out in the posts of this thread.

Edited May 27, 2022 by SkyDekker

[gowlerk 1,911]

Just now, porpoishead said:

I don’t believe in all of those bullshit conspiracies 

This conversation brings to mind the Green Day song, "American Idiot".

[porpoishead 5]

Just now, gowlerk said:

Again, did you know him personally? (I will ignore the drug question)

You know damn well that I knew billy personally, and I’m positive that you read my very first post to this thread.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

7 hours ago, porpoishead said:

Very touching Jerry, with all due respect that Oregon proposal is pure trash

Hi Alex,

That is your opinion.  I'm OK with that.

Also, I thought you said that you were leaving.  Now, I'm not asking you to leave; just wondering why you are still here.

Jerry Baumchen