Mental Health, Guns, Mental Health

[SkyDekker 1,121]

1 minute ago, porpoishead said:

If a criminal obtains a firearm deceitfully, or builds a firearm for criminal purposes then,

I don’t see how this is accurate 

How many firearms are manufactured commercially in the world and how many are 3d printed or otherwise manufactured non-commercially?

My guess it is like 99.9% commercial, but let's be generous and make it 99.5% commercial. I wonder how rounding works on 99.5....does that go to 100 or to 99?

[porpoishead 5]

Just now, SkyDekker said:

How many firearms are manufactured commercially in the world and how many are 3d printed or otherwise manufactured non-commercially?

My guess it is like 99.9% commercial, but let's be generous and make it 99.5% commercial. I wonder how rounding works on 99.5....does that go to 100 or to 99?

Justin how’s the gun violence in Canada I believe last 3 times I was there this year there was a shooting?

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

12 hours ago, porpoishead said:

Thank you I was kind of tired of hearing you crying

Hi Alex,

Do not denigrate the other posters.

Jerry Baumchen

[SkyDekker 1,121]

1 minute ago, porpoishead said:

Justin how’s the gun violence in Canada I believe last 3 times I was there this year there was a shooting?

It is nowhere near the gun violence in the US. Mass shootings are exceedingly rare. Gun regulations are a hot mess, but I agree with the gist of them. Biggest problem is guns being smuggled into Canada from the US.

Innocent people getting shot is also rare, majority of gun crime is criminal on criminal.

[porpoishead 5]

2 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Alex,

Do not denigrate the other posters.

Jerry Baumchen

Jerry I am sure you’ve said the same to others when they levied báseles claims against me? Let me go back and check 

[porpoishead 5]

I didn’t find any Jerry, just me. My apologies sir, and apologies to the OP as well 

[porpoishead 5]

You may all proceed with your baseless attack on me…

[olofscience 420]

2 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

I didn’t find any Jerry, just me. My apologies sir, and apologies to the OP as well 

Well I'm starting to gain a bit more respect for you, so I'll apologise for my aggressive posts earlier. But it would be nice if you answered my last question, I do think there's common ground somewhere.

[porpoishead 5]

49 minutes ago, olofscience said:

If you're willing to do that, then would you be willing to:

1. get 3 character references that show you're of good character
2. get annual professional mental health evaluations
3. get annual inspections of your gun storage,
4. demonstrate competency in handling and maintenance of firearms

Plus, you'd even get to keep your guns!

If you passed all that, I mean. You'd pass easily, right?

Because Billy wouldn't have - and him and his family might still be alive and getting help.

I certainly would be good to go with any of those. Billy on the other hand I cannot say with any degree of certainty for several of those things although i do believe him and flo both took a basic firearms course 

[porpoishead 5]

As far as maintenance he was definitely lacking there for sure, he could do basic things but again billy wasn’t a gun guy by any definition he was late to firearms 

[wmw999 2,116]

Let's keep attacking the ideas, and not the people. This is a fast-running discussion, and neither of us moderators want to stomp it.

Wendy P.

[olofscience 420]

1 minute ago, porpoishead said:

I certainly would be good to go with any of those. Billy on the other hand I cannot say with any degree of certainty for several of those things although i do believe him and flo both took a basic firearms course 

I think he would have failed with the road rage incident(s). Then an annual mental health evaluation might have caught whatever it was and gotten him help.

The 18 year old who shot up the school might have struggled to pass the first 3 if it was comprehensive enough.

And you'd still get to keep your guns.

[olofscience 420]

16 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

I certainly would be good to go with any of those.

See? I've pretty much just described the process for getting a gun in the UK. Where even the police don't carry guns - but you would theoretically be able to.

And where the schoolchildren don't have to practice for active shooter situations.

(ok, you wouldn't really like it that much as some kinds of guns are completely banned, but you'd be able to get some guns instead of none at all)

Edited May 26, 2022 by olofscience

[porpoishead 5]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

I think he would have failed with the road rage incident(s). Then an annual mental health evaluation might have caught whatever it was and gotten him help.

The 18 year old who shot up the school might have struggled to pass the first 3 if it was comprehensive enough.

And you'd still get to keep your guns.

I think he would have failed all of them. Fact that his mother was a crack head he lived with the grandmother and there is no mention of a father that I am aware of. 

[olofscience 420]

6 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

I think he would have failed all of them. Fact that his mother was a crack head he lived with the grandmother and there is no mention of a father that I am aware of. 

I wouldn't judge him on that though. I'll probably pass those tests now, but there was a time in my life where I would have failed one or two of those.

So maybe he could have failed for a while then passed when his life and health was in order. Sad it didn't get to that, though, because those tests hardly exist.

Edited May 26, 2022 by olofscience

[wmw999 2,116]

5 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

I think he would have failed all of them. Fact that his mother was a crack head he lived with the grandmother and there is no mention of a father that I am aware of. 

It's 3 references of good character, not an evaluation by the local popo that he is a righteously-raised dude. I'll bet there were teachers and neighbors who would have provided references.

Annual mental health evaluations, dunno. But some people are OK mentally until they aren't. Again, Billy.

Gun storage, by the current Texas laws, is "don't fuck up" basically. You don't have to have a lockable safe, you just have to be able to secure it. I'd bet that England's laws on storage are a little stricter, and enforceable. They aren't in the US. The evidence is in the fact that in 2015, over 250 reported incidents of children shooting someone from a gun they picked up in the home, with 83 of them being fatal (link to International Business Times). That doesn't include discharges that didn't hurt someone, or didn't hurt them enough for them to have to go somewhere that it would be reported. And I think the motivation to hide that it had happened would be rather strong.

Wendy P.

[porpoishead 5]

35 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Innocent people getting shot is also rare, majority of gun crime is criminal on criminal.

Same could be said here in the states Justin as far as majority being criminal on criminal what’s going on in Chicago and a lot of metropolitan areas with the gang kids is obscene and so senseless they really just kill each other over nothing. I contribute that mostly to a fundamental lack of education.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Just now, porpoishead said:

Same could be said here in the states Justin as far as majority being criminal on criminal what’s going on in Chicago and a lot of metropolitan areas with the gang kids is obscene and so senseless they really just kill each other over nothing. I contribute that mostly to a fundamental lack of education.

you are ignoring the part about how much more frequently it happens in the US and how many more innocent people ARE getting killed. Mass shootings are exceedingly rare in Canada and the rest of the Western world.

Look, you feel that you being able to easily acquire all kinds of firearms and carry them all over the place is "Freedom". Billy's kids paid for that "freedom". Those innocent little kids in Texas paid with their lives for that "freedom". Is that really what "freedom" is?

Is making sure that little kids have to fear for their lives and go through active shooter drills really the type of country your Founding Fathers had in mind?

[wmw999 2,116]

70% of gun deaths are suicides. Most of those aren't gang-related. Yes, if they're determined someone will kill themself. But if they're impulsive, they can regret or rethink many other attempted means. We don't have the highest suicide rate in the world, but that doesn't mean we don't want to improve it.

Wendy P.

[Stumpy 256]

24 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Where even the police don't carry guns - but you would theoretically be able to.

Just for clarity - in the UK you could have guns for shooting (targets/game) but "carry" in the concealed/open sense is a no no.

[olofscience 420]

5 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

Just for clarity - in the UK you could have guns for shooting (targets/game) but "carry" in the concealed/open sense is a no no.

Yes. But based on this discussion, it looks like there's room for compromise, no?

Because right now each side thinks the other side are absolutists.

(and well spotted - I should have said "own" rather than "carry")

Edited May 26, 2022 by olofscience

[porpoishead 5]

3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

you are ignoring the part about how much more frequently it happens in the US and how many more innocent people ARE getting killed. Mass shootings are exceedingly rare in Canada and the rest of the Western world.

Look, you feel that you being able to easily acquire all kinds of firearms and carry them all over the place is "Freedom". Billy's kids paid for that "freedom". Those innocent little kids in Texas paid with their lives for that "freedom". Is that really what "freedom" is?

Is making sure that little kids have to fear for their lives and go through active shooter drills really the type of country your Founding Fathers had in mind?

Freedom is freedom brother, I’m all about “for all legal purposes”. Billy’s kids and flo did not pay for any freedom in my opinion they were murdered by the one person in the world that they should have been able to trust with their lives. If he used a candlestick, then it would be down to the kid in Texas. I condemn both. 

[riggerrob 558]

23 hours ago, porpoishead said:

"... To say that an automatic firearm has no purpose I would respectfully disagree. I use automatics for different types of game management because they are appropriate for certain situations.

I carry for self defense and I carry an automatic pistol because of the high capacity ... " 

 

Please keep your terminology straight.

FULLY-AUTOMATIC firearms are PROHIBITED for civilians in Canada and severely RESTRICTED of PROHIBITED for American civilians. FULLY-AUTOMATIC machine-guns can dump an entire magazine or belt of ammunition with a single trigger press. Yes, a handful of Americans go through the whole background check process to apply for an NFA license to own fully-automatic machine-guns, but they are only a tiny percentage of the American population. In most countries, only police and military are allowed to own FULLY-AUTOMATIC machine-guns.

OTOH SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifles and shotguns are NON-RESTRICTED in Canada and non-restricted in most American states. They are SEMI-AUTOMATIC because they only fire one bullet per trigger press. 

SEMI-AUTOMATIC pistols are RESTRICTED in Canada and legal in most American states.

In Canada, you need to pass a firearms' safety course and apply for a federal firearms POSSESSION AND ACQUISITION LICENSE before you can own any firearms. State rules vary in the USA.

I am comfortable with trained people (military, police or at least a federal PAL course) handling firearms, but un-trained amateurs scare me. At a minimum, American gun laws should be amended to require - at minimum - a course in the basics of safely handling firearms. The National Rifle Association should be able to figure out how to turn a profit teaching the basics of firearms safety.

There! I just told American show to revise their gun laws. Let the flames begin! Hah! Hah!

[SkyDekker 1,121]

5 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

OTOH SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifles and shotguns are NON-RESTRICTED in Canada

Magazine capacity for magazines designed for semi-automatic centre fire rifles and shotguns however are regulated and ownership of magazines exceeding that restriction are a criminal offence.

Rifles deemed to be of the AR15 platform are currently sort of prohibited.

[porpoishead 5]

2 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Please keep your terminology straight.

FULLY-AUTOMATIC firearms are PROHIBITED for civilians in Canada and severely RESTRICTED of PROHIBITED for American civilians. FULLY-AUTOMATIC machine-guns can dump an entire magazine or belt of ammunition with a single trigger press. Yes, a handful of Americans go through the whole background check process to apply for an NFA license to own fully-automatic machine-guns, but they are only a tiny percentage of the American population. In most countries, only police and military are allowed to own FULLY-AUTOMATIC machine-guns.

OTOH SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifles and shotguns are NON-RESTRICTED in Canada and non-restricted in most American states. They are SEMI-AUTOMATIC because they only fire one bullet per trigger press. 

SEMI-AUTOMATIC pistols are RESTRICTED in Canada and legal in most American states.

In Canada, you need to pass a firearms' safety course and apply for a federal firearms POSSESSION AND ACQUISITION LICENSE before you can own any firearms. State rules vary in the USA.

I am comfortable with trained people (military, police or at least a federal PAL course) handling firearms, but un-trained amateurs scare me. At a minimum, American gun laws should be amended to require - at minimum - a course in the basics of safely handling firearms. The National Rifle Association should be able to figure out how to turn a profit teaching the basics of firearms safety.

There! I just told American show to revise their gun laws. Let the flames begin! Hah! Hah!

Surely rob you know I know the difference without me listing my qualifications with firearms. By automatic I surely meant SA and not FA and I own  NFA weapons.

thanks for clearing that up.

and to help you out a bit it’s not so much the background process as filling out form 3 or form 4 depending if you’re building or purchasing as far as FA anything manufactured after 86 is restricted to military/Leo anything FA that was registered pre-86 was grandfathered and is transferable