Mental Health, Guns, Mental Health

[porpoishead 5]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Outside America for a hunter to show up at a hunting camp to start a discussion and debate. That a .22 caliber semi auto like a Ar-15 is a good hunting weapon. Would label themself as either a novice or ignorant. They would most likely be shunned. A core component for a hunter is respect and consideration for what your hunting. To dispatch a game animal quickly so it doesn't suffer. The .223 caliber bullet which weighs 50-60 grains( 3.2 to 3.9 grams). Is almost insignificant to the average hunting bullet. Which is about .30 cal and 180 grains.

Proper tools for the task at hand Phil, I couldn’t agree with you more. I hunt game with rifle projectiles that are considerably smaller than 50-60 grain.

you make an argument in your statement then generalize hunting to a +-180gr projectile. Think about it would you shoot a squirrel or rabbit with a .30cal round. A .223 in certain instances dependent on the game and type of hunt could be an ideal round.

[kallend 1,621]

If you think guns aren't the problem, explain this graph:

[porpoishead 5]

The semantics wether an AR platform or any other for that matter is a suitable choice for taking game and what gear is to be used is a moot point. In an effort to just end that argument, I say please, use whatever gear is appropriate and legal for taking game that results in a clean and humane kill for the game you are targeting and enjoy yourself.

 

[porpoishead 5]

If you suspect that you or someone you know has a mental health issue please reach out and attempt to help.

[porpoishead 5]

Kallend, I don’t care to discuss those statistics. 

[NewGuy2005 51]

Hey Porpoishead

A minigun and 30 ARs?  That's what I call "all in."  I own an AR as well as a semi auto pistol.  I don't think I need them.  I have never carried concealed and every time I have carried one in my car on a trip I have regretted it because it's a big responsibility that I don't want.  As a general rule, I feel safe without them.  

The problem is not your guns, or my guns.  The problem is the number of guns that are in circulation and the ease with which a person can get their hands on one.  I won't quote any statistics.  I'm sure you already know them.

Another issue is not just the number of guns, but the mix of the types of guns that are in circulation.  More and more of the American civilian stockpile are AR type rifles and semi auto handguns.  Although any gun can kill a person, some are more effective than others. The other day, I heard a guy from Palmetto State Armory say that they ship something like 2,000 ARs or AR kits every day.  That's a lot of black rifles.

Add to the mix the issue of people that have mental health issues, either openly apparent, or in the case of Billy, hidden.  Maybe Billy didn't even have any mental health issues until the day he killed his family.  Who knows?  How many others are like him?  I think that problem is getting worse, not better.  

You say you are surrounded by evil?  Wouldn't you prefer that Evil didn't have the most effective killing tools in existence?  Wouldn't it be better if you had the guns and Evil did not?

With that in mind, don't you think that we should at least take better measures to assure that the bad guys don't have guns?   The measures we are taking now are not working.  

Guns are approaching the status of a religion.  Let's see if that is not confirmed this weekend at the NRA convention. I'm sure the politicians speaking there are going to sound like preachers in the pulpit.

I don't want you to give up your impressive collection.  More power to you, but mark my words, this is going to end with nobody (legally) owning guns.  

[jakee 1,254]

24 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

Kallend, I don’t care to discuss those statistics. 

I wonder why.

[NewGuy2005 51]

Let me add:  You wouldn't, as a responsible gun owner, leave your guns lying around where kids, crazy people, and criminals can pick them up and start shooting, correct?  That is exactly what the entire gun community/culture/industry has done.

Since you and I and millions of other are responsible for that mistake, we have a responsibility to correct it.

[billvon 2,384]

54 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

Kallend, I don’t care to discuss those statistics. 

They are uncomfortable, aren't they.

[porpoishead 5]

21 minutes ago, NewGuy2005 said:

Hey Porpoishead

A minigun and 30 ARs?  That's what I call "all in."  I own an AR as well as a semi auto pistol.  I don't think I need them.  I have never carried concealed and every time I have carried one in my car on a trip I have regretted it because it's a big responsibility that I don't want.  As a general rule, I feel safe without them.  

The problem is not your guns, or my guns.  The problem is the number of guns that are in circulation and the ease with which a person can get their hands on one.  I won't quote any statistics.  I'm sure you already know them.

Another issue is not just the number of guns, but the mix of the types of guns that are in circulation.  More and more of the American civilian stockpile are AR type rifles and semi auto handguns.  Although any gun can kill a person, some are more effective than others. The other day, I heard a guy from Palmetto State Armory say that they ship something like 2,000 ARs or AR kits every day.  That's a lot of black rifles.

Add to the mix the issue of people that have mental health issues, either openly apparent, or in the case of Billy, hidden.  Maybe Billy didn't even have any mental health issues until the day he killed his family.  Who knows?  How many others are like him?  I think that problem is getting worse, not better.  

You say you are surrounded by evil?  Wouldn't you prefer that Evil didn't have the most effective killing tools in existence?  Wouldn't it be better if you had the guns and Evil did not?

With that in mind, don't you think that we should at least take better measures to assure that the bad guys don't have guns?   The measures we are taking now are not working.  

Guns are approaching the status of a religion.  Let's see if that is not confirmed this weekend at the NRA convention. I'm sure the politicians speaking there are going to sound like preachers in the pulpit.

I don't want you to give up your impressive collection.  More power to you, but mark my words, this is going to end with nobody (legally) owning guns.  

I understand not having any personal use for any firearm no matter the platform, many people feel that way. Personally I engage and guide all types of hunts and shooting sports using anything from a 32gr rifle round to upwards of 500gr rounds and anything from 9’s to 000 buck in a spread shot across many different platforms and many different conditions. As i stated earlier what may be useful to some may not be useful to others. I have no issue with that, to each their own.

The number of guns in circulation already is one of the main reasons in my opinion why people fear restrictions, mainly from the defensive carry contingent. The argument from that standpoint that everyone is familiar with, is that the bad guys don't play by the rules. In either of the 2 recent incidents being discussed the bad guys weren’t bad guys until they were, and that is the dilema.

[porpoishead 5]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

They are uncomfortable, aren't they.

They certainly are Bill, I believe they are somewhat skewed though when it comes down to legal and responsible ownership compared to illegally possessed/stolen and used to commit crime.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

15 hours ago, porpoishead said:

The people in that town in Texas would disagre Jerry, some kid just showed up for no apparent reason and started wrecking a bunch of babies brother. After he shots his grandmother in the face and took to the road in a rampage.

where did he come from, if not from amongst us??

And the cops stood outside for about 40 minutes and let it happen while threatening to taser parents who wanted to go in and try and save their children.

[billvon 2,384]

2 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

They certainly are Bill, I believe they are somewhat skewed though when it comes down to legal and responsible ownership compared to illegally possessed/stolen and used to commit crime.

But those stats said nothing about legal and responsible ownership.  It just shows homicides vs the number of guns.  It is useful to understand that more guns does NOT result in less crime; in fact, from all available data, the opposite is true.

[NewGuy2005 51]

4 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

I understand not having any personal use for any firearm no matter the platform, many people feel that way....

You're not hearing me.  Need is irrelevant.  You can have your guns, need them or not.  You don't need to defend whether or not you should own guns as an individual.  I'm saying that as an entire society, we have let this get out of control.  Way out of control.

[porpoishead 5]

2 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

And the cops stood outside for about 40 minutes and let it happen while threatening to taser parents who wanted to go in and try and save their children.

It was a hot mess certainly Justin, in order for first responders to be able to get into the scene and render aid the scene has to be cleared. A bunch of more people rushing in there would have just added to the chaos surely you understand that.

[porpoishead 5]

1 minute ago, NewGuy2005 said:

You're not hearing me.  Need is irrelevant.  You can have your guns, need them or not.  You don't need to defend whether or not you should own guns as an individual.  I'm saying that as an entire society, we have let this get out of control.  Way out of control.

Who’s going to go door to door and collect them all? 

[Stumpy 256]

1 minute ago, porpoishead said:

Who’s going to go door to door and collect them all? 

Huh? Who is suggesting that as a solution?

[NewGuy2005 51]

3 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

Who’s going to go door to door and collect them all? 

We both know that's not going to happen.  However, we can start by having more honest discussions about what the problem is.  Beyond that, I have no answers.  

[SkyDekker 1,121]

11 hours ago, porpoishead said:

And again I don’t give a shit what they do in other countries I live in the United States of America the land of the free

Land of the free, unless you are a woman, or a school teacher, or an elementary school kid who just wants to live.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

8 minutes ago, porpoishead said:

It was a hot mess certainly Justin, in order for first responders to be able to get into the scene and render aid the scene has to be cleared. A bunch of more people rushing in there would have just added to the chaos surely you understand that.

The shooting was still going on when the cops were unwilling to engage and go inside.

If the argument is that they need to get organized in order to respond effectively, then that also means that arming the population to try and end these mass shootings is a bullshit argument.

If those who are trained to end these types of incidents need 40 minutes to get organized before reacting, then it is absolutely asinine to argue that arming the population will help.

[porpoishead 5]

4 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

Huh? Who is suggesting that as a solution?

Stumpy nobody did, as far as I recall I am the one who posted that. Was a response to the millions upon millions of firearms that are already in circulation.

Truth be told if Billy’s girls and flo could all live, then I would shut it down and turn in all of my firearms. 

[porpoishead 5]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

The shooting was still going on when the cops were unwilling to engage and go inside.

If the argument is that they need to get organized in order to respond effectively, then that also means that arming the population to try and end these mass shootings is a bullshit argument.

If those who are trained to end these types of incidents need 40 minutes to get organized before reacting, then it is absolutely asinine to argue that arming the population will help.

Not necessarily Justin, there is a difference when you are fighting for your life and you are responding to an incident. There is a golden rule in rescue operations “me before you before everybody” you cannot effect a rescue if you just blindly go in to a situation where you will be taking fire from a rifle. Running into a bullet renders you ineffective at an rescue attempt.

[Stumpy 256]

1 minute ago, porpoishead said:

Stumpy nobody did, as far as I recall I am the one who posted that. Was a response to the millions upon millions of firearms that are already in circulation.

Truth be told if Billy’s girls and flo could all live, then I would shut it down and turn in all of my firearms. 

And hence the problem. Change will only come gradually. There are loads of things that could be done to restrict firearm usage and availability in the US without an outright ban coming anywhere near the table, however the argument against is always "they are coming to grab your guns - resist at all costs!".

Nothing is going to solve the problem overnight - that genie was out of the bottle decades ago, but small changes, well implemented, could slowly (very slowly) reduce the toxic, fear driven gun ownership culture you have.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

3 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

I have no doubt that Brent would pass background checks. I have no reservations about him playing with Ar-15s.

Absolutely. If you lived in a dodgy area he'd be like the ideal neighbor, as long as he didn't stop by to chat.

[kallend 1,621]

1 hour ago, porpoishead said:

Kallend, I don’t care to discuss those statistics. 

For obvious reasons - they destroy your claims.