ChuteRequired 0 #1 April 23, 2015 I was just reading about the otter crash in 1992 and how important it is to wear seat belts on jump planes. In addition, I've been frustrated with trying to find the belt, route it through the harness when crammed in together and then fish it out without pulling handles when disconnecting. This leads me to a question.... Why dont they standardize the latch part and actually sew the male part right into the harness? This would cut in half the number of belts laying around in the plane. It would ensure that you are belted in by the strongest way possible and remove the idiot factor by preventing people from buckling around their chest strap. Just a random thought. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #2 April 23, 2015 ChuteRequiredWhy don't they standardize the latch part and actually sew the male part right into the harness? This would cut in half the number of belts laying around in the plane. It would ensure that you are belted in by the strongest way possible and remove the idiot factor by preventing people from buckling around their chest strap. Unfortunately it is not too practical because of the variations in seatbelt hardware, but that is a very innovative idea. It sounds like something the military could put into place over time, because they have more control over their aircraft and parachute gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #3 April 23, 2015 Quote Unfortunately it is not too practical because of the variations in seatbelt hardware, but that is a very innovative idea. It sounds like something the military could put into place over time, because they have more control over their aircraft and parachute gear. That's not an industry standard? Well then it seems the correct course of action would be to design an industry standard seatbelt, get it adopted and then design this system! retrofitting would take a decade, though, and you'd need to make sure you can't just freely pivot if you're being violently tossed around. You might still want two points of connection with your harness. But that's really just an excuse to violently toss around some roughly human shaped dummies to see what happens!I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #4 April 23, 2015 It's actually a really, really good idea and would significantly improve safety. However it hits a number of bumps in the road. Starting with standardization of the system. Retrofitting old rigs. TSO requirements for the system. Their is actually a TSO for seat belts. Liability for the harness manufacturer who is now part of the system in a plane crash. I mean the list goes on and on. If we went to hip ring harness with a releasable clip on a short seat belt it would be awesome, the idea has been around for years, but don't hold your breath on it happening. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #5 April 23, 2015 Good idea! I can picture sewing up a simple circle of webbing with a standard, male seat-belt fitting in one end. The circle could loop around the Main Lift Web. That prototype would have to be stuffed inside your jumpsuit before exit. Perhaps we could loop around the leg strap, then feed it through to hip ring. The hip ring would prevent the seat-belt lanyard from separating when pulled at weird angles during a crash. The production model would be so low-profile that you could just leave it dangling from your harness hip joint. Military pilots have been doing that for decades. They don their harness before walking to the plane. Once seated in the airplane, they only clip in once, because their parachute harness is also their seat harness. Like Mr. Peck said, the hassle is carrying around 3 or four different seat-belt ends to match the dozen or so different seat-belt patterns in popular usage. The good news is that fashions in Cessna seat-belts change very slowly. I used a a variation on your theme for a couple of years. When bureaucrats prevented us from installing enough seat-belts in our Cessnas, I simply clipped tandem student side straps to cargo rings. That reduced their flail arc to less than half the length of the cabin. When cargo rings were too small, or non-existent, I snuck Maillon Rapide connector links onto seat-belt hardware. I volunteer to sew the first few prototypes. Just send me a few dimensions and some male seat-belt fittings that are compatible with your favourite jump-plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
topdocker 0 #6 April 23, 2015 I don't see rig manufacturers sticking their collective rear ends into the aircraft crash liability pile. They are so worried now that some one is going to sue them out of existence, there is no way they are going looking for more ways to get named in a lawsuit. topJump more, post less! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #7 April 23, 2015 peekUnfortunately it is not too practical because of the variations in seatbelt hardware, but that is a very innovative idea. How about a Y-shaped seatbelt that has a single-point aircraft attachment at one end, and a quick-eject snap and non-adjustable V-ring on the other? The quick-eject could snap to a hip ring, or to the V-ring on a conventional harnes. Stainless hip rings should work okay; cad-plated might have the plating worn off, although slower than the usual snap & ring combination because the seatbelt snaps would be worn looser than, say, the B-12 snaps on many student leg straps. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 April 23, 2015 No need for parachute harness manufacturers to get involved, if the new strap is an after-market slip-on. Since parachute harness makers never saw the new strap in their factory, they can plead ignorance. You are correct in stating that the problem is more legal than practical. Yesterday I was quivering with rage over the latest asinine lawyer tactic ..... breath deeply ....... breath deeply ....... So I am trying to focus my frazzled energies on a productive solution, like sewing prototypes for this new strap. A few years ago I invented a solution to a similar problem. One of our local jump-planes suffered a shortage of seat-belts, So I started clipping tandem student side-straps to cargo rings. When I discussed the new practice with a major Florida-based tandem manufacturer, they replied "we can neither confirm nor deny ...." Because they recognized it as more of a legal problem than a technical problem. The biggest obstacle is crossing the legal boundary between FAA Technical Standard Order C-22 (seat-belts) and FAA TSO C-23 (parachutes). The tandem manufacturer could not afford to open that legal can-of-worms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #9 April 23, 2015 I'm not sure the after market argument works. The seat belt is TSO'd. If your plugging some thing into it, that's like the other half of the seat belt. I don't think you could do this with out going through the TSO process for that peace of the "seat belt". Idea has been kicked around for years. No one debates it's marrit but they have also never been able to make it work legally/liability. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
