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JerryBaumchen

Abortion Commentary

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19 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Cite please

From the other thread:
=========================
Peter Breen is the vice president of the Thomas More society, a conservative legal action group.  He has been anti-abortion for quite a while.  Today he said that "just because you jump across a state line doesn’t mean your home state doesn’t have jurisdiction.” 

He's not the only conservative to say this.  Missouri state representative Mary Coleman recently backed a law that banned women from traveling out of state for abortions, and to allow any citizen to sue anyone in a blue state who helped a woman attain one. 

The obvious question is - is this legal?  In most cases, you are subject to the laws of the state you are in.  Thus if you go to a state with a different drinking age, or a different liquor tax, or different gun laws, you heed the laws/pay the taxes in the state you are in, not the state you came from.

There is an exception - the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850.  It was passed in response to free states giving safe harbor to slaves who escaped from the South.  It was a federal law that required the arrest of people who helped escaped slaves, and punished authorities in free states who would not make arrests, and also required that slaves be recaptured and returned to slave states.  

So that's the prototype that conservatives would use to arrest and jail women who travel to other states to get abortions - and people who helped them.

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4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Seriously? You have strong opinions on the matter and you are that uninformed? 

Well, in his defense, almost everyone here has strong opinions, and no one here is 100% informed.  Asking an honest question about another person's argument is a good thing in my book, not a bad thing.

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1 hour ago, airdvr said:

Never happen.  A fine example of how the media works over the left as well as the right.

I’d say that under the Texas law it’s already happened. SB8 penalises anyone who aids, abets or funds a person getting an abortion after 6 weeks. It doesn’t say anything about where the abortion is performed. If you’re in Texas and you help someone travel out of Texas for an abortion are you not vulnerable?

 

By the way, Greg Abbott defended his law, saying that it wouldn’t force any women to carry rapists babies because the Texas police would get rid of all the rapists (presumably somehow managing to arrest them before the rapes are committed). Your comment above is at least as naive as that.

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1 hour ago, billvon said:

Well, in his defense, almost everyone here has strong opinions, and no one here is 100% informed.  Asking an honest question about another person's argument is a good thing in my book, not a bad thing.

I'll concede that I'm often full of it but you never are, not that you need someone often full of it defending your honor. In this case, given the absolute truth about the horrifying downstream, and soon to be made much worse, effects of this latest act of Supreme Court cruelty I think anyone opining that it's not such a bad thing really ought to have their facts in basic assemblage. For other topics, like which came first string theory or vibrators I'll be more forgiving.

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9 hours ago, airdvr said:

Do you have children?

Hi airdvr,

I have two.  If I had not been on this earth, I think my former wife would have had 4 children.  Using some 'Magic Math,' my being here is possibly a net -2.

IMO that would be a good thing.

Jerry Baumchen

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15 hours ago, billvon said:

<<snip>> In most cases, you are subject to the laws of the state you are in.  <<snip>>

There is an exception - the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850.  It was passed in response to free states giving safe harbor to slaves who escaped from the South.  It was a federal law that required the arrest of people who helped escaped slaves, and punished authorities in free states who would not make arrests, and also required that slaves be recaptured and returned to slave states.  

So that's the prototype that conservatives would use to arrest and jail women who travel to other states to get abortions - and people who helped them.

That's ironic on a sad and very deeply disturbing level.

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39 minutes ago, Baksteen said:

That's ironic on a sad and very deeply disturbing level.

The parallels between current events and the time frame leading up to the US Civil War (~160 years ago) are rather frightening.
The behaviors of the current Republicans and the then Southern oligarchs is eerily similar.

I only hope we don't have to go through another war that consumes 2% of the population to get past it.

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1 minute ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I only hope we don't have to go through another war that consumes 2% of the population to get past it.

Who would leave, and who would fight to keep them? Questions to think about

Wendy P. 

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1 minute ago, wmw999 said:

Who would leave, and who would fight to keep them? Questions to think about

Wendy P. 

Can you clarify that?

I don't understand why you are asking 'who would leave?'
I'm talking about a genuine Civil War. Battles, dead people, all that.

And 'keep them' - Keep what?

Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand what you are asking.

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Well, the Civil War was fought to preserve the union after the secession of the southern states. I guess I was thinking of that kind of civil war; not just the general violence a lá South Sudan. I hadn’t gone that far

Wendy P. 

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12 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Well, the Civil War was fought to preserve the union after the secession of the southern states. I guess I was thinking of that kind of civil war; not just the general violence a lá South Sudan. I hadn’t gone that far

Wendy P. 

Ahhhh. Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

No, I'm not thinking about, say, the Koch brothers and ALEC 'taking their ball and going home'.

I'm thinking more along the lines of various revolutions in recent times. The Orange Revolution in Ukraine back in 04 didn't get super violent, but it could have.

Where protests against abortion bans or voter suppression or that sort of thing start turning violent, groups like the Proud Boys jump in and start attacking their 'enemies', and then general chaos ensues.

I'm 

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12 minutes ago, ryoder said:

My sister had two abortions when she was younger. The third time she got pregnant, she decided to keep the baby. When I asked why, she said that getting an abortion was too mentally difficult and she just couldn't go through that again. I respect all of the decisions that she made as they were hers to make and she chose what she thought was right for her at the time.

Where my problem comes in is that she is now pro-life and thinks abortion should be completely banned in all instances. So, she was able to make the decision that she felt was right for her at the time, but now that she is in her 50's, she doesn't think others should be allowed the same choice she had.

That is hypocrisy at it's finest and it seems to be very common on the far right.

-OK

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(edited)
On 6/28/2022 at 8:12 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Looks poor for Biden:   since the ruling, (Biden’s) visibility as part of the response has been limited

Abortion-rights supporters vent their frustration at Biden and Democrats : NPR

One more nail in the 'I will not run again,' coffin.

Democrats/liberals have shown a knack for shooting themselves in the foot.

He might try to pull an RBG and try to stick it out to the very end, leaving the party in a really bad spot come 2024.

Edited by DougH
Because I am sleepy

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On 6/30/2022 at 1:49 AM, jakee said:

You say that - but shouldn’t taking responsibility for the consequences of your own actions be one of those beliefs? 
 

“Well sure I’ve spent my whole life voting for people who wanted to do exactly what they just did but it’s not my fault! That one old lady over there shouldn’t have let me get away with it!”

I have seen the same bullshit on Facebook from lots of old acquaintances that are conservative. Right now they are either giddy, or they are hiding from the reality of their bullshit by avoiding news coverage or downplaying the validity of the "lame stream media".

I will paraphrase poorly a recent meme that had great timing if you are a hypocritic asshole:

"Live your life, have fun, let others live their life... 

The media is trying to divide us.

Remember that the news is a scripted drama. If you care about the world off the tv and become the best version of your self".

What that really translates into is support people who want to control others lives and freedoms, that is OK if they don't want to control "yours". Ignore the reality of your actions, and the pieces of shit that you have aligned yourself with. Don't listen to the news, because they are telling the truth and using big words that make your head hurt.

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15 minutes ago, DougH said:

Democrats/liberals have shown a knack for shooting themselves in the foot.

He might try to pull and RBJ and try to stick it out to the very end, leaving the party in a really bad spot come 2024.

RBJ?

 

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1 hour ago, ryoder said:

“ The survey also showed that Catholic women have an abortion rate 29% higher than Protestant women.”


Which means that all the Red states passing anti abortion laws are going to compensate by increasing the quality and availability of safe sex education in schools, right? ….. Right?

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1 hour ago, jakee said:

availability of safe sex education in schools

You mean abstinence right? Everyone one knows that the only acceptable and proper form of safe sex in a Trump Loving Pro-life state is abstinence. Wait for marriage if you love Jesus, unless you want to consider "the loophole".

(If not glaringly obvious, the video contains language and imagery that may not be suitable for work.)

 

/

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(edited)
23 hours ago, jakee said:

There is ONE Democrat senator who made it clear he would not support any of those measures under any circumstances, and that’s it.

Then you use political persuasion/pressure to "change their mind". Not specifically in this case, but said senator is highly corrupt. Threaten to use that against them, and if they don't fall in-line with the rest of the democrats, FOLLOW THROUGH. Just don't talk behind closed doors then do nothing.

23 hours ago, billvon said:

A second has been working to protect them.  They have succeeded for over 50 years

This is where you and I disagree. I don't see the second doing anything except going with the status quo and hoping nothing will change. The opposition has been actively trying to change things and the Ds have done nothing to permanently uphold Row v. Wade.

Edited by CygnusX-1
Because I typed too fast and didn't read

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