Florida on my mind.....

[JoeWeber 2,294]

There is no Skydiving/Skydivers nexus point that is more real for US skydiving than Florida. In truth, many other countries rely on access to the training skills, jump opportunities and manufacturing capability in Florida for their own circumstances. And yet, here we are: the highest levels of government in Florida are demonstrably bigoted and focused on self serving policies crafted for political gains regardless of any harm to some of their own taxpaying citizens, or anyone else for that matter. If we care about our LGBTQ brothers and sisters, what do we do? What do we ask our manufacturers to do? What about Russian aggression in Ukraine?  What do we ask our manufacturers to do? What do we ask USPA to do. Normally, I like to just come out and flatly state what we should do. Tonight, I'm having trouble and need some help.

[Phil1111 908]

New Florida election DeSantisgestapo.

I got nothing. I'd think the A/C would have to get to at least 1000 AGL to get above the stink of DeSantis pandering.

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Monday signed a bill into law creating a new election police — officially called the “Office of Election Crimes and Security" — that will be responsible for looking into voter fraud accusations and other violations of election law. DeSantis signed the bill at a sports bar called “Rookies” in Pasco County amid a receptive crowd and lots of fellow Republicans. The budget he will sign (let’s assume sometime in late May) includes enough money ($2.6 million) to pay for 25 positions with the new effort."

Edited April 27, 2022 by Phil1111

[wmw999 2,116]

No good answers, as mine depend on not depending on skydiving in the first place. Maybe that’s why we keep telling newbies to have a real job, so that they don’t have to depend on skydiving.

Wendy P. 

[kallend 1,620]

While it doesn't apply at the individual level, on the whole a state or nation gets the government it deserves.

[DougH 270]

10 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

If we care about our LGBTQ brothers and sisters, what do we do? What do we ask our manufacturers to do?

On average jumpers will do nothing, just like the general population. You may have some individuals boycott travel or take other actions, but it will be the minority and while those individual actions may illustrate individuals' characters it will be gnat on a windshield in terms of swaying state policy, same goes for drop zones and skydiving manufacturers too.

Even if we could be impactful, you are assuming that the powers that be have enough intelligence to recognize the impact.

I am 16 years in, and skydiving has cleaned up a lot from the stories I used to hear about the good old days, but even in my more recent time I still have seen plenty of evidence that skydivers will in general tolerate a lot of "bad behavior" if the jumps are fun, the lift tickets are cheap, or the creep can really shred. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by DougH

[JoeWeber 2,294]

4 minutes ago, DougH said:

On average jumpers will do nothing, just like the general population. You may have some individuals boycott travel or take other actions, but it will be the minority and while those individual actions may illustrate individuals' characters it will be gnat on a windshield in terms of swaying state policy, same goes for drop zones and skydiving manufacturers too.

Even if we could be impactful, you are assuming that the powers that be have enough intelligence to recognize the impact.

I am 16 years in, and skydiving has cleaned up a lot from the stories I used to hear about the good old days, but even in my more recent time I still have seen plenty of evidence that skydivers will in general tolerate a lot of "bad behavior" if the jumps are fun, the lift tickets are cheap, or the creep can really shred. 

Doug, thanks. At this stage I have no illusions, believe me. That said, I've seen a lot of jumpers do things for no other reason than because they felt it was the right thing to do which is more what I'm getting at. Also, I'd like to think we could do something more than rise up in support of other people rising up in support. Probably not, though.

[metalslug 31]

11 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

New Florida election DeSantisgestapo.

Hmm.. you're not perhaps one who's quick to cite Godwin's law when it suits your purposes, right ?

I would expect that skydivers from both sides of the argument have the same choices in Florida and that is to "go jump", either literally or metaphorically.

[SkyDekker 1,120]

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

There is no Skydiving/Skydivers nexus point that is more real for US skydiving than Florida. In truth, many other countries rely on access to the training skills, jump opportunities and manufacturing capability in Florida for their own circumstances. And yet, here we are: the highest levels of government in Florida are demonstrably bigoted and focused on self serving policies crafted for political gains regardless of any harm to some of their own taxpaying citizens, or anyone else for that matter. If we care about our LGBTQ brothers and sisters, what do we do? What do we ask our manufacturers to do? What about Russian aggression in Ukraine?  What do we ask our manufacturers to do? What do we ask USPA to do. Normally, I like to just come out and flatly state what we should do. Tonight, I'm having trouble and need some help.

What makes you think a majority of skydivers are in any way interested in protesting any of these things?

[timski 80]

9 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

What makes you think a majority of skydivers are in any way interested in protesting any of these things?

Give the guy a break, his moral compass is clearly spinning out of control and he's looking for co-signers. As much as I love the appeal of the sub tropics I'm just as home in the mountains or elsewhere. Nice to place to visit, or not!  

[kallend 1,620]

I don't like Florida.  Too many old people and skydivers.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

4 hours ago, timski said:

Give the guy a break, his moral compass is clearly spinning out of control and he's looking for co-signers. As much as I love the appeal of the sub tropics I'm just as home in the mountains or elsewhere. Nice to place to visit, or not!  

It's not my moral compass that is spinning out of control and if you knew me you'd know that I don't need co-signers to do what I think is right. As ever, concern for others that might come with no personal benefit, and possibly some cost, is in short supply everywhere--not directed at you just a flat observation. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

9 hours ago, metalslug said:

Hmm.. you're not perhaps one who's quick to cite Godwin's law when it suits your purposes, right ?

I would expect that skydivers from both sides of the argument have the same choices in Florida and that is to "go jump", either literally or metaphorically.

Mike Godwin himself said that the rule was suspended when discussing Trump.

The MAGA morons have done so much to destroy democracy in the US and usher in one-party rule that it's not funny.



On the plus side, both France and Slovenia rejected far right nationalists.

So there's some hope.

[Phil1111 908]

Florida, owns the government it deserves. Skydivers, the cheaper the jumps the better the DZ. If the next one is even cheaper, the herd is a coming.

Political awareness and social responsibility among skydivers. Well those parameters are defined in these forums regularly.

Joe, imagine a salmon swimming upstream. Now add dams and waterfalls. Your idea is that salmon.Sorry to be the dream crusher.

You could tackle something more achievable. Turning Putin into a Buddhist monk. Turning trump into Mother Teresa.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

47 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Florida, owns the government it deserves. Skydivers, the cheaper the jumps the better the DZ. If the next one is even cheaper, the herd is a coming.

Political awareness and social responsibility among skydivers. Well those parameters are defined in these forums regularly.

Joe, imagine a salmon swimming upstream. Now add dams and waterfalls. Your idea is that salmon.Sorry to be the dream crusher.

You could tackle something more achievable. Turning Putin into a Buddhist monk. Turning trump into Mother Teresa.

I concede. You are right. I'm thinking I'm better suited to other arenas, adieu.

[Phil1111 908]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I concede. You are right. I'm thinking I'm better suited to other arenas, adieu.

There are just too many Brents in Florida. You could do it. Just as one percent of salmon live to reproduce.

There are politically active people here who act to help others unselfishly. Wendy as an example. I just think thats a battle with slim possibility of success.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Phil1111

[riggerrob 558]

Godwin's Law: the longer a discussion progresses, the more like that some one will make an analogy with Adolf Hitler.

For the record, I fear the hard-right just as much as I fear the hard-left.

Religious zealots of every faith also scare me.

[winsor 185]

On 4/28/2022 at 6:48 PM, riggerrob said:

Godwin's Law: the longer a discussion progresses, the more like that some one will make an analogy with Adolf Hitler.

For the record, I fear the hard-right just as much as I fear the hard-left.

Religious zealots of every faith also scare me.

In the same sense that there is greater commonality amongst the hard sciences at advanced than introductory levels, in that PhD candidates from various disciplines will be found in the same advanced courses, there is less difference between the 'left' and the 'right' when taken to the extreme.

Fascism was created by Benito Mussolini, who was a lifelong Socialist from a Communist family.  It was National Socialism that took hold somewhat North of Italy, and much of its power came from its espousal of Socialist tenets.

The Catholic Church portrays itself as a wellspring of goodness and virtue, but the Vatican Bank underwrote the rise of both the Italian and German regimes in the early '30s to ensure its survival - quite the Devil's Bargain.

I am much more skeptical of do-gooders than of pragmatists, since time and again the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

In the case of Florida, I understand what is intended by the laws that were passed, but consider the final result to be typically ham-handed.  Another case of paving done with good intentions.

When it comes down to it, trying to avoid going anywhere that does not have breathtakingly stupid laws on the books would present quite the challenge.  It's only the new breathtakingly stupid laws that draw attention; we are simply accustomed to the ones already on the books.

The addition of a couple of stupid laws isn't enough to impact my travel plans one way or another.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

 

[SkyDekker 1,120]

On 4/30/2022 at 1:11 AM, winsor said:

n the case of Florida, I understand what is intended by the laws that were passed,

You understand passing laws for problems that don't exist other than in the minds and propaganda of the right? How Woke.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

On 4/30/2022 at 4:11 AM, winsor said:

In the same sense that there is greater commonality amongst the hard sciences at advanced than introductory levels, in that PhD candidates from various disciplines will be found in the same advanced courses, there is less difference between the 'left' and the 'right' when taken to the extreme.

Fascism was created by Benito Mussolini, who was a lifelong Socialist from a Communist family.  It was National Socialism that took hold somewhat North of Italy, and much of its power came from its espousal of Socialist tenets.

The Catholic Church portrays itself as a wellspring of goodness and virtue, but the Vatican Bank underwrote the rise of both the Italian and German regimes in the early '30s to ensure its survival - quite the Devil's Bargain.

I am much more skeptical of do-gooders than of pragmatists, since time and again the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

In the case of Florida, I understand what is intended by the laws that were passed, but consider the final result to be typically ham-handed.  Another case of paving done with good intentions.

When it comes down to it, trying to avoid going anywhere that does not have breathtakingly stupid laws on the books would present quite the challenge.  It's only the new breathtakingly stupid laws that draw attention; we are simply accustomed to the ones already on the books.

The addition of a couple of stupid laws isn't enough to impact my travel plans one way or another.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

 

Short of presuming, I think I get your point. I'm just not one to observe historical societal trends as a methodology for determining  what I do instead of first considering whether something rubs me right or wrong. But that's me.

After posting this I received a fair amount of feedback away from here. I think I have a better handle on it now, for me. I'll concede that it's mealy mouthed and etc. but I will visit family and friends and attend important events that are signature. I also won't do anything that negatively affects anyone who relies on me. Hopefully after those limitations there are some things I can boycott.

 

 

[Phil1111 908]

DeSantis has promised a new "open carry" law in Florida. Because Florida is such a dangerous state. The proposed legislation will allow open carry without any safety course. So get ready for Glocks on the DZ.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Meh. Open carry is usually far more 'performance' than actual self defense.

Bunch of idiots who want everyone to see them with a gun.

I can't find it right now, but Florida was the first of the states that went with 'shall issue' carry law back in the 90s. It was a long time ago, but part of it included mostly unrestricted open carry (since changed).
It got a lot of coverage in the press, and a lot of folks were going around with very large pistols on their belts. 
It got old fast (those big guns are heavy) and quietly went away.

Same thing with the fools who feel a need to carry a large military style rifle to go to Target. It got a lot of coverage, and then went away.

[billvon 2,380]

9 hours ago, Slim King said:

Siri says 1,000 people a day move to Florida. I guess they know something you guys have missed.

Stop necroposting.  Your one warning.

[tonyhays 86]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

necroposting

Today I learned a new term