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JerryBaumchen

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On 4/20/2022 at 9:54 PM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi folks,

The Blame Game begins:  Parachute demonstration causes scare as U.S. Capitol is evacuated - oregonlive.com

Nancy Pelosi blamed the Federal Aviation Administration. . . saying its “apparent failure . . . is outrageous and inexcusable.”

Jerry Baumchen

She seems more than a little over the top about it. 

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8 hours ago, gowlerk said:

She seems more than a little over the top about it. 

well, she was involved in an attempted insurrection not too long ago.  i'm sure she would have liked to have seen a response like this during that little sideshow.  perhaps that has something to do with her reaction.  i know it would piss me off a tad if bunch of idiots tried to kill me and nothing happened, only to find an over-reaction to this extent over a miscommunication.  but that's just me, i guess i take it personally when folks try to kill me.  fortunately, it doesn't happen often.  just offering a different perspective.

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Gotta love the 'probable threat' assessment.

 

Circling (standard jump plane climb pattern, most likely)

Stayed out of the Prohibited Areas directly above the Capitol & WH.

Did it occur to anyone to simply pick up the phone and call the controllers?
I'd be very surprised if the security folks didn't have a phone list that includes the tower over at Reagan.

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or an app on the phone that told them what the plane is and all that...i've done it before.  but another thing to consider, if they were doing a demo, wouldn't there be a crowd and crowd control?  i'd think if i were doing crowd control, i'd want to know what type of crowd to expect.  i would hesitate to place the blame on the faa because of that, or at least all of it. 

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3 minutes ago, sfzombie13 said:

or an app on the phone that told them what the plane is and all that...i've done it before.  but another thing to consider, if they were doing a demo, wouldn't there be a crowd and crowd control?  i'd think if i were doing crowd control, i'd want to know what type of crowd to expect.  i would hesitate to place the blame on the faa because of that, or at least all of it. 

They were doing a demo into National Stadium for a ball game. You can be sure there was professional level crowd control there. They were flying in a holding pattern waiting for the correct time to jump when an overzealous nervous Capitol Hill officer noticed them and over reacted. That is the long and short of it. The FAA were notified that the jump was to take place and granted clearance. They probably did not realize that the demo would involve flying in circles overtop because it is not something they deal with all the time there. It was simply a misunderstanding and a chain of events that has upset the Speaker who is a very sensitive lady and not to be trifled with. She is coming off as an overly entitled old bitch.

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

They were doing a demo into National Stadium for a ball game. You can be sure there was professional level crowd control there. They were flying in a holding pattern waiting for the correct time to jump when an overzealous nervous Capitol Hill officer noticed them and over reacted. That is the long and short of it. The FAA were notified that the jump was to take place and granted clearance. They probably did not realize that the demo would involve flying in circles overtop because it is not something they deal with all the time there. It was simply a misunderstanding and a chain of events that has upset the Speaker who is a very sensitive lady and not to be trifled with. She is coming off as an overly entitled old bitch.

Hi Ken,

Re:  entitled

I do not consider Nancy Pelosi entitled.  She has worked very hard to be elected Speaker twice.  IMO she has earned the votes of her colleagues.

Hope that this does not go to SC.

Jerry Baumchen

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2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I do not consider Nancy Pelosi entitled.  She has worked very hard to be elected Speaker twice.

I like Nancy and I like what she stands for. She is very skilled. But just reading the headlines from this incident she does not appear to have handled it well at all.

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Is this the first time the GK has done a demo at that stadium? If they've done this before/do it at all regularly, you'd think someone at the WH would be familiar with it. If it was the first time, you'd think the Army would make sure the WH was notified.

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(edited)
3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

How about those Golden Knights? They, the Capitol Police, and the FAA, are fair game here. It's just too likely to get moved if we talk about political figures

Wendy P. 

Ok, I'll try to put this 'properly'.

I don't see any issues with those people in 'positions of power and responsibility' reacting strongly to this.

They were in their offices, minding their own damned business when they were told (more or less) 'run for your lives, there's an airplane about to attack us!!'

From a supposedly responsible security force, that's not a warning that's going to be taken lightly.

To later find out that it was:

A - Not a threat at all.
B - A plane operated by the US Military.
C- That the people investigating it are starting to falsely lay blame (story says that "Officials believe, based on a preliminary review, the pilot may have not properly reported taking off or had appropriate clearance", yet also says "Air traffic control recordings capture the army plane coordinating its flight with the control tower at nearby Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.").

Would be rather infuriating.
To insist that those responsible for it be held accountable is not unreasonable.



I have no clue who screwed up. 
I doubt it was the GK. They've done this too many times in too many places not to know the drill. And, being 'the Army', I'd bet very heavily that they have a written procedure that details all the steps, including those that cover notification of proper authorities.
Did the FAA fail to notify the security people? Perhaps. I don't know the procedures and such for authorized flights into that sort of restricted airspace. For the plane to be in contact with ATC AND in that restricted area means someone at the FAA knew about it and was ok with it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the FAA passed the info onto the security folks, but I think it makes it less likely that the screwup was at the FAA.

My first instinct is to blame the security guys. They are the ones who never bothered calling the FAA (control tower) to see what was up. 
They are the ones who over-reacted and ordered the evacuation.

Did the message get sent and never read?
Did the person who received & read it not pass it up the chain of command?
Did it get 'lost in the shuffle'?

I don't know. 
I'm rather curious to find out.

Edited by wolfriverjoe
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1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Ok, I'll try to put this 'properly'.

I don't see any issues with those people in 'positions of power and responsibility' reacting strongly to this.

They were in their offices, minding their own damned business when they were told (more or less) 'run for your lives, there's an airplane about to attack us!!'

From a supposedly responsible security force, that's not a warning that's going to be taken lightly.

To later find out that it was:

A - Not a threat at all.
B - A plane operated by the US Military.
C- That the people investigating it are starting to falsely lay blame (story says that "Officials believe, based on a preliminary review, the pilot may have not properly reported taking off or had appropriate clearance", yet also says "Air traffic control recordings capture the army plane coordinating its flight with the control tower at nearby Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.").

Would be rather infuriating.
To insist that those responsible for it be held accountable is not unreasonable.



I have no clue who screwed up. 
I doubt it was the GK. They've done this too many times in too many places not to know the drill. And, being 'the Army', I'd bet very heavily that they have a written procedure that details all the steps, including those that cover notification of proper authorities.
Did the FAA fail to notify the security people? Perhaps. I don't know the procedures and such for authorized flights into that sort of restricted airspace. For the plane to be in contact with ATC AND in that restricted area means someone at the FAA knew about it and was ok with it. That doesn't necessarily mean that the FAA passed the info onto the security folks, but I think it makes it less likely that the screwup was at the FAA.

My first instinct is to blame the security guys. They are the ones who never bothered calling the FAA (control tower) to see what was up. 
They are the ones who over-reacted and ordered the evacuation.

Did the message get sent and never read?
Did the person who received & read it not pass it up the chain of command?
Did it get 'lost in the shuffle'?

I don't know. 
I'm rather curious to find out.

Hi Joe,

Update:  FAA admits fault in Capitol aircraft incident - POLITICO

Looks like the buck has stopped.

Jerry Baumchen

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2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Update:  FAA admits fault in Capitol aircraft incident - POLITICO

Looks like the buck has stopped.

Jerry Baumchen

My simplistic gut reaction is that the FAA thinks it is in charge of airspace, and all others, hey, those dummies should check the NOTAMs.  Sort of, "If they want info, they phone us; we don't have to phone them."  Obviously the communications failures and security agreements around Washington will be more complex in reality.

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The larger the organization, the less likely a message will be passed properly.

The more layers in the organization, the less likely the message will be passed properly.

If management made a decision, but nobody told the man with the wrench ... did management really make a decision?

I used to see this sort of foolishness every day when I served in the Canadian Armed Forces (1974 to 1987).

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