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wmw999

Propagandizing America

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I’ve been traveling lately, which means more reading, and browsing airport bookstores. I usually go to Amazon for the reviews for anything that looks interesting, and have noticed a trend lately that some snowflakes don’t accept other ideas. The new book by RFK Jr which is supposed to simply ruin Fauci? It has almost 16,000 overwhelmingly positive reviews. That’s scary. What’s worse is that about 20% of the one-star reviews were only because RFK also doesn’t like Trump, and they can’t deal with that.

Combine that with other reviewed books where a favorable treatment of a 1930’s labor union (which has a Communist as an agitator) is dissed as communist propaganda, and dang — looks like plenty of people would prefer we return to the Gunsmoke days, when you knew exactly how everything was going to turn out.

Just remember, a stopped clock is, in fact, right twice a day, and a slightly slow or slightly fast one is never right, but is relatively reliable for actually determining when you need to leave home

Wendy P. 

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

 and have noticed a trend lately that some snowflakes don’t accept other ideas.

This trend - the dumbing down of discourse to the level of angry soccer fans - is something that was predicted years, even decades ago by authors like Al Gore, Mike Judge, Susan Jacoby and Carl Sagan.  I'm sure you've seen Carl Sagan's quote from 1996:

I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or my grandchildren's time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance."

Replace that with "clutching our crystals and consulting our horoscopes" with "taking Ivermectin and reading Twitter" and you have today's level of public discourse.

And 10 seconds?  That's forever by today's standards.  Today what people consider "substantive content" includes "Let's go Brandon" "Hunter's laptop" and "I did that!"  Under a second.

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44 minutes ago, billvon said:

This trend - the dumbing down of discourse to the level of angry soccer fans - is something that was predicted years, even decades ago by authors like Al Gore, Mike Judge, Susan Jacoby and Carl Sagan.  I'm sure you've seen Carl Sagan's quote from 1996:

I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or my grandchildren's time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance."

Replace that with "clutching our crystals and consulting our horoscopes" with "taking Ivermectin and reading Twitter" and you have today's level of public discourse.

And 10 seconds?  That's forever by today's standards.  Today what people consider "substantive content" includes "Let's go Brandon" "Hunter's laptop" and "I did that!"  Under a second.

Agreeing with Billvon ... Over the last decade I have seen North American media severely dumbed-down. The decline started back during the 1990s when I worked in the Southern California skydiving industry: California City, Hemet. Perris and Elsinore, I soon concluded that the Los Angeles Times fixated on stories originating in the LA Basin. The LA Times only occassionally mentioned events in other states and largely ignored Europe, S during my days off, I drove 1 hour to a newspaper store that carried: Manchester Guardian, Paris Match, der Spiegel, Toronto Globe and Mail, etc. to understand the global picture.

These days I read a half-dozen internet feeds and keep a PAPER copy of The Economist in my pocket.

We have also seen North American severely polarized to the point that right-wingers only have to listen to their version of the "correct" news on a dozen different conservative news feeds.

By the same token, I have to bite my tongue when my left-wing, tree-hugging friends get too excited about the latest "woke" news story.

Bottom line, current trends towards polarization are scary because they only push voting blocs farther apart. .

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1 hour ago, billvon said:

This trend - the dumbing down of discourse to the level of angry soccer fans ....

And 10 seconds?  That's forever by today's standards.  Today what people consider "substantive content" includes "Let's go Brandon" "Hunter's laptop" and "I did that!"  Under a second.

IMO to a certain extent thats true. But at the same time there is a whole world of very knowledgeable people, business and leaders. Before the internet you had to go to libraries, to school. Now you can browse a magazine or newspaper. Then in a short time proof every story, every representation. Take a story then spend an hour to study every aspect of that event, technology, geography, etc.

Yes you can be dumbed down. If you choose or have such innate dispositions. But at the same time there are more and more people that are super smart. About dozens subjects that would span a college class twenty years ago.

"The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming," Yeah thats a problem. When news reporters subtly change an adjective about a short news story. The entire story gets turned upside down. Sometimes its through ignorance sometimes laziness, sometimes poor editing.

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8 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Yes you can be dumbed down. If you choose or have such innate dispositions. But at the same time there are more and more people that are super smart. About dozens subjects that would span a college class twenty years ago.

Sure, there are some people who can use the internet to improve themselves.

But the majority of news consumers are not discerning.  They read what's in front of them - and now click on whatever's interesting and/or reinforces their beliefs.  And then their news reader learns their preferences.

That is a very fundamental difference.  30 years ago you read a newspaper, and the newspaper was edited to present a mix of news.  Sure there was some bias but for the most part the stories were accurate and comprehensive.  And they didn't change if you read the sports pages more than the news section.  You got the same newspaper every week.

Nowadays, if you read a newsfeed you eventually get only the things you have been clicking on.  If all you ever click on are stories about how much Biden sucks, all you will see are stories about how much Biden sucks.  And you will begin to believe that because you see absolutely nothing that counteracts that; your newsfeed is learning to give you only what you want.  You have created your very own news bubble, and that shapes your worldview.  And to a lazy news consumer, that's an accurate representation of the news he sees.

That's true of everything.  If you believe that Putin is justified in invading Ukraine because he wants to stop the evil Nazi Zelensky?  Click on all those stories and that's all you will see.  Want to believe that vaccines have microchips in them?  That climate change will kill everyone within 5 years?  That Jan 6th was just some tourists who got lost?  Your newsfeed will alter itself to show you that.

THAT is the big difference.

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2 minutes ago, billvon said:

Sure, there are some people who can use the internet to improve themselves.

But the majority of news consumers are not discerning.  They read what's in front of them - and now click on whatever's interesting and/or reinforces their beliefs.  And then their news reader learns their preferences.

That is a very fundamental difference. ...

THAT is the big difference.

Completely agree. When i was 14, I had a paper route. Typically better than 95% of households subscribed. Everyone had TV via broadcast. Today myself and the next door neighbor subscribes to the local newspaper. But I don't see anyone else on the block that gets a paper. I also subscribe to the NYT, online. I don't get FB news. I only use FB for the marketplace.

If a person gets into some sort of FB algorithm of extremism. Anything goes.

So we get to the degree of bias. Percentage of single source news coverages chosen. Accuracy of chosen sources. Together with the ability of consumers, for lack of a better term. To ascertain biases in such sources and specific stories.

(PEW) Republicans less likely to trust their main news source if they see it as ‘mainstream’; Democrats more likely

(PEW) More Americans now say government should take steps to restrict false information online than in 2018  To wit, where is my ban FOX thread.

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I have been a subscriber to Scientific American for nearly 50 years, and a reader for nearly 60 years, since high school.

It is definitely dumbed down compared with the 60s and 70s.  Then it contained articles written by the scientists themselves, and might contain (horrors) actual math.  Now the majority of articles are written by "Science Journalists".  Each issue also has about 1/2 the number of pages than before, and every other one is an ad.

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2 hours ago, billvon said:

That's true of everything.  If you believe that Putin is justified in invading Ukraine because he wants to stop the evil Nazi Zelensky?  Click on all those stories and that's all you will see.  Want to believe that vaccines have microchips in them?  That climate change will kill everyone within 5 years?  That Jan 6th was just some tourists who got lost?  Your newsfeed will alter itself to show you that.

THAT is the big difference.

This is what truly frustrates me about the almighty algorithm - it's supposedly the best thing the brightest minds at these tech companies can come up with, but it's just so dumb... There's no sophistication to it, it doesn't learn anything about why you clicked on something, it just goes "ok here is more of what you clicked".

In the last 6 months or so, I clicked on the comments sections of certain FB posts that had been shared by some of my "wooier" friends about vaccine mandates etc, just to see what sort of things people were thinking. I never engaged on the posts themselves in any concrete way - didn't like comments or posts, didn't comment myself, I solely read the comments there on FB.

I only had to do this a handful of times before half my suggested posts ran the gamut from sceptical to full-blown NWO conspiracies. The algorithm is extremely dumb, but also completely insidious.

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Perhaps a silly question, but how do you stop those damn "suggested posts" on FB?  I must have clicked on some actual history thread one time, and now I get tons of these Confederate-loving threads full of crap about how great all those rebel soldiers and generals were.  Complete racist drivel, but it just keeps coming.

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1 hour ago, mistercwood said:

There's no sophistication to it, it doesn't learn anything about why you clicked on something, it just goes "ok here is more of what you clicked".

Are you sure about that? I have a feeling they track how much time you spend on a post, which videos and content engages you and which you quickly scroll past etc. etc. etc.

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13 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Are you sure about that? I have a feeling they track how much time you spend on a post, which videos and content engages you and which you quickly scroll past etc. etc. etc.

I mean, probably? But at the end of the day, they aren't ascertaining *why* I'm looking at those things. They don't appear to be able to tell the difference between me looking through that stuff because I'm intrigued and agree, or looking at it to see just what kind of batshit insanity is being spruiked and absorbed by a small but increasingly noisy element of the populace.

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They don’t have the tools to discern why you’re looking at stuff, only that you do. So thats what they show you, and hope that either fervor or morbid curiosity will keep you hooked. As far as how to get it changed, actively look at other stuff. Then they’ll think you have a new shiny toy. Not a perfect solution, but it might improve things.

Wendy P. 

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2 hours ago, GeorgiaDon said:

Perhaps a silly question, but how do you stop those damn "suggested posts" on FB?  I must have clicked on some actual history thread one time, and now I get tons of these Confederate-loving threads full of crap about how great all those rebel soldiers and generals were.  Complete racist drivel, but it just keeps coming.

Easy. Don't use Facebook for personal fun.

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2 hours ago, GeorgiaDon said:

Perhaps a silly question, but how do you stop those damn "suggested posts" on FB?  I must have clicked on some actual history thread one time, and now I get tons of these Confederate-loving threads full of crap about how great all those rebel soldiers and generals were.  Complete racist drivel, but it just keeps coming.

You can shut off the 'suggested posts'. There's a drop down menu for it.

You can also report the posts containing the 'racist drivel'. I report them as 'offensive'.

After reporting a few of them, they tend to go away...
For a while.

I still remember back when BillyV's 'Sick & Twisted' thread was active, there was a link to 'fat roll separator pads'. Intended for obese people to put between the rolls of fat to reduce chafing and irritation.

I was foolish enough to click on the link in the post to see what it was.

I had ads for those things showing up everywhere for a week.
Yes, I know that's Google following me, not FB.


But the principle is similar.

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1 hour ago, kallend said:

An amusing take on Florida's decision to ban math books on account of their  propagandizing content:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/19/florida-math-textbooks-critical-race-theory/

Although it’s a humorous article, it still leaves you thinking “oh my god, they really just ran a CTRL+F for certain words in the text and that was it”. 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, kallend said:

An amusing take on Florida's decision to ban math books on account of their  propagandizing content:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/19/florida-math-textbooks-critical-race-theory/

 

spacer.png

DeSantis uses much of this B.S. as a fundraising mechanism. He currently has a $100 million election war chest. A concept he learned from his master, trump.

So he will continue such political grandstanding and Marjorie Taylor Greene style ideas. Because republicans will send in more and more money.

Florida’s DeSantis catching up to Trump in campaign cash

Ron DeSantis amasses massive war chest "money from all 50 states" $5.5 million in one month!  Yes America is getting the government it deserves. The best money can buy.

Edited by Phil1111

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4 hours ago, kallend said:

An amusing take on Florida's decision to ban math books on account of their  propagandizing content:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/19/florida-math-textbooks-critical-race-theory/

 

Hi John,

From your link; this says it all:  In fact, they won’t have to learn much of anything at all.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  And I thought Differential Equations was hard.

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On 4/19/2022 at 1:31 PM, billvon said:

This trend - the dumbing down of discourse to the level of angry soccer fans - is something that was predicted years, even decades ago by authors like Al Gore, Mike Judge, Susan Jacoby and Carl Sagan.  I'm sure you've seen Carl Sagan's quote from 1996:

I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or my grandchildren's time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance."

Replace that with "clutching our crystals and consulting our horoscopes" with "taking Ivermectin and reading Twitter" and you have today's level of public discourse.

And 10 seconds?  That's forever by today's standards.  Today what people consider "substantive content" includes "Let's go Brandon" "Hunter's laptop" and "I did that!"  Under a second.

Back in the early 1970's, I attended a couple evening lectures at Cornell given by Carl Sagan.  He spoke about the  Arecibo Telescope in Puerto Rico.

They were looking for radio transmissions from intelligent life in other parts of the galaxy.  He said many of the stars were about 25 light years away and if other intelligent beings had a radio telescope aimed in the direction of our solar system, they would be picking up 25 year old radio transmissions from earth.  When they received the transmissions from I Love Lucy, they would know there was no intelligent life in this part of the galaxy.  Projected on the screen, there was a constellation of a 6 legged unicorn viewed from another location in our galaxy looking toward our solar system.  He said do you see that star at the base of the unicorn's tail, that is our sun.

He had a sense of humor.

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On 4/20/2022 at 10:28 AM, Phil1111 said:

spacer.png

DeSantis uses much of this B.S. as a fundraising mechanism. He currently has a $100 million election war chest. A concept he learned from his master, trump.

So he will continue such political grandstanding and Marjorie Taylor Greene style ideas. Because republicans will send in more and more money.

Florida’s DeSantis catching up to Trump in campaign cash

Ron DeSantis amasses massive war chest "money from all 50 states" $5.5 million in one month!  Yes America is getting the government it deserves. The best money can buy.

I don't know how true this is, but at least you can find the post on Twitter.  If it really was a letter penned by a couple of teachers, bravo to them:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dont-say-gay-he-she-sabotage-teacher-letter-moms-for-liberty-florida_n_62489f02e4b0587dee6a3a1a

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