Reality Check #2

[JoeWeber 2,294]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

Been hearing about that for 20 years now.  Still waiting for the traffic to improve.

They're doing it, if traffic in Oregon is any measure, but the numbers aren't particularly meaningful compared to the California population. Also, it appears to be a good trade with a strong in-migration component of highly educated, high earning, and younger taxpayers. I don't know, maybe if the lame stream media would quit with all of those fake news stories about tornados, hurricanes, arctic vortexes, lead water pipes, governor kidnappings, floods of brown people overwhelming essential services like the gun clubs, forced gay conversions, the perils of arming kids for school, etc, etc, there would be more interest in moving out from some folks.

[wmw999 2,114]

I know my son has said that if moves from Houston (where he has a lot of friends), it'd almost certainly be a climate-driven move to somewhere more resilient in the long run. He's not alone. 

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 383]

55 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

I know my son has said that if moves from Houston (where he has a lot of friends), it'd almost certainly be a climate-driven move to somewhere more resilient in the long run. He's not alone. 

Wendy P. 

There is a lot of climate-driven moving, just not in the direction you think.

“Texas added more new residents in 2021 than any other state,  according to new data released by the US Census Bureau on Dec. 21. Florida, another state that has made headlines for its population growth, saw the second biggest population increase.”

https://qz.com/2106080/these-are-the-states-where-most-americans-moved-in-2021/

Folks aren’t just moving to warmer states, they are fleeing blue states as well.

#reality check 

[wmw999 2,114]

They’re also eating heart attack burgers (to the exclusion of other foods), sitting around, and taking medication to fix lifestyle-related health issues. And then bitching because medical care is so expensive

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 383]

51 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

They’re also eating heart attack burgers (to the exclusion of other foods), sitting around, and taking medication to fix lifestyle-related health issues. And then bitching because medical care is so expensive

Wendy P. 

Non sequitur much?

[SkyDekker 1,119]

16 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Large numbers of Californians have already moved to Arizona, Utah, Oregon, Idaho, etc. to escape high taxes.

We have seen a similar migration in British Columbia over the last 20 years. As house prices exceeded $1 million dollars in Vancouver, people started retiring to the Okanagan Valley. So many Vancouverites moved to the Okanagan Valley that house prices soared and are almost as expensive as Vancouver.

Yet, net migration to Metro Vancouver is up over 25% in those 30 years and the area has added about 600,000 people over that time frame. Net migration is forecasted to continue to be positive.

[wmw999 2,114]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Non sequitur much?

Oh, I think everyone else gets it. If you’d like, I can explain

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Oh, I think everyone else gets it. If you’d like, I can explain

Wendy P. 

Please do 

[wmw999 2,114]

11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Please do 

At the risk of "tl:dr"

To me it's about short term vs long term decisions when they're exercised on long term systems. In the short run, more money and opportunity are good, but looking at the long term, one should consider the longer term consequences. Just because something feels good or works now doesn't mean it always will. Just because there's technology to address the problems caused by short term decisions doesn't mean they're the best. When you're poor, hungry, or cold, those are the best ones. But the US as a country and people on this forum are none of those. 

I see care of one's own body as a pretty good parallel to the planet and environment. One has to live in the present, but should color those decisions with the real consequences. In the case of the body, health care is expensive and not as good as being healthy in the first place. In the case of the planet, not taking the maximum "benefit" now means fewer costly remediations (air conditioning, air scrubbing, health effects from, pollution, mass migration for climate effects). You don't appear think those things matter or don't happen, I do.

I think your 3 measures are not the right ones if taken context-free; the fact that people aren't dying as much in the US particularly right now is in part due to better food technology (at the cost of animal safety and health, and the introduction of huge and increasing amounts of pesticides and fertilizers and hormones into our bodies and our children's bodies). It's also due to better communication about storms and the like, as well as "intrusive, expensive, and unnecessary" building standards to stand up to flooding and hurricanes. Wars and migration in other parts of the world are partly driven by climate causes; hunger, loss of farmland due to drought, and population growth beyond the carrying capacity of some locations. 

Now have fun "skewering me" and making fun of me. I've given you the respect of taking your post honestly and seriously.

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 383]

Wendy, you make some good points, they just don’t address the reasons folks are moving out of cold states and blue states and moving to warmer, redder states.  I’m pretty sure it’s not just so they can have a hamburger.

[billvon 2,379]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Wendy, you make some good points, they just don’t address the reasons folks are moving out of cold states and blue states and moving to warmer, redder states. 

So you still missed the point after that excellent explanation.  Wow.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

So you still missed the point after that excellent explanation.  Wow.

You say that like it's not being done on purpose.

[wmw999 2,114]

10 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Wendy, you make some good points, they just don’t address the reasons folks are moving out of cold states and blue states and moving to warmer, redder states.  I’m pretty sure it’s not just so they can have a hamburger.

They’re taking care of today. But my point is that sometimes one should choose a different way of taking care of today, so that tomorrow (or our grandchildren’s tomorrow) is easier to take care of. At least the people who have the luxury of choice. Most of us here on dz.com are pretty high up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs; we can afford to think about the consequences. And we should.

Wendy P. 

[billvon 2,379]

3 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

You say that like it's not being done on purpose.

You're right; he got me again.  My bad.

[brenthutch 383]

18 hours ago, billvon said:

So you still missed the point after that excellent explanation.  Wow.

AKA, you make some good points that have nothing to with the topic at hand.  If people really thought global warming was a problem, wouldn’t they be moving from Texas and Florida to Illinois and New York, instead of the other way around?

[JoeWeber 2,294]

28 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

AKA, you make some good points that have nothing to with the topic at hand.  If people really thought global warming was a problem, wouldn’t they be moving from Texas and Florida to Illinois and New York, instead of the other way around?

Absolutely, in fact the truly serious would be moving to a new globe. Don't let anyone tell you that the depth and breadth of this, or any other issue, is beyond your ken. 

[billvon 2,379]

43 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

AKA, you make some good points that have nothing to with the topic at hand.

Of course.  Choosing long term benefit over short term profit/fun has nothing to do with choosing long term benefit over short term profit.  Anyone who thinks the two are related are liberal loonies who probably voted for Obama.  Heck, they probably think Biden won the election.

[brenthutch 383]

23 minutes ago, billvon said:

Of course.  Choosing long term benefit over short term profit/fun has nothing to do with choosing long term benefit over short term profit.  Anyone who thinks the two are related are liberal loonies who probably voted for Obama.  Heck, they probably think Biden won the election.

Yeah it’s just like that 

[jakee 1,254]

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

AKA, you make some good points that have nothing to with the topic at hand.  If people really thought global warming was a problem, wouldn’t they be moving from Texas and Florida to Illinois and New York, instead of the other way around?

AKA if people always acted rationally with long term benefit in mind there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place. Or skydiving.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

AKA if people always acted rationally with long term benefit in mind there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place. Or skydiving.

What problem?

[jakee 1,254]

5 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

What problem?

Have you forgotten the topic?

[brenthutch 383]

2 minutes ago, jakee said:

Have you forgotten the topic?

Yes, help me out. What problem?

[jakee 1,254]

28 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Yes, help me out. 

No. If you're unable to remember the topic of a thread you started that's your problem. Doesn't bode well for you being able to make any interesting points if you were reminded, either. That juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze.

[brenthutch 383]

14 minutes ago, jakee said:

No. If you're unable to remember the topic of a thread you started that's your problem. Doesn't bode well for you being able to make any interesting points if you were reminded, either. That juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze.

Nowhere in my OP or Wendy’s Reality Check #2, is the word ‘problem’.  
“there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place” are your words.  Again what is the problem to which you are referring.

[billvon 2,379]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Nowhere in my OP or Wendy’s Reality Check #2, is the word ‘problem’.

Wendy: "Who cares if that means I have to move, that’s not a problem unless it happens."