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kallend

Medical debt

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1 hour ago, airdvr said:

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go.  All you're doing right now is cheering for a program that missed the mark badly.  It was simply another pork filled crony payoff disguised as healthcare for the masses.  ACA cost 1.6 trillion and still 10% are uninsured.

It missed the mark because it was to be discussed by and implemented by people whose sole motivation in politics was to stop it and Obama as a whole. Think about that for a second.

Its second motive was simply to move the healthcare needle, and it’s done that. People who thought what we had was perfect now realize there are other options, and some are willing to consider it.

Wendy P. 

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4 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go.  All you're doing right now is cheering for a program that missed the mark badly.

?? It was intended to provide heatlhcare for Americans who could not afford it.  It required action by both the federal government and local goverments.

In places where both did their jobs it worked quite well.  In places it didn't, it still provided more healthcare than they would have gotten without it.  In 2010, 48.2 million Americans were uninsured.  By 2016, 28.2 miillion were.  That means that it worked to get healthcare to 20 million more Americans. 

It is VERY hard to spin that as a failure that badly missed the mark.  I cheer it because helping 20 million Americans afford health care is a very good thing.  That's 20 million Americans who can better take care of their kids, who will have a better quality of life and who will live longer.  Not sure what kind of person you'd have to be to call that a failure.

 

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4 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go.  All you're doing right now is cheering for a program that missed the mark badly.  It was simply another pork filled crony payoff disguised as healthcare for the masses.  ACA cost 1.6 trillion and still 10% are uninsured.

ACA was the best solution available given the continual and continuous sabotage inflicted by the GOP.  The sabotage continues to this day in the states that refuse to expand Medicaid, thus punishing their own residents simply to "own the Libs".  The data on health outcomes and healthcare debt are unambiguous and overwhelming.

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4 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go.  All you're doing right now is cheering for a program that missed the mark badly.  It was simply another pork filled crony payoff disguised as healthcare for the masses.  ACA cost 1.6 trillion and still 10% are uninsured.

Yes, it missed the mark by miles. Yes healthcare is expensive. I'm not sure why you think it is pork though. In Canada healthcare is the single largest government expenditure. Healthcare in total is 12.7 % of our GDP. $8,017 CAD per person. In the US it is 19.7% of GDP. 12,500 USD per person. 4.1 trillion in 2020. You are being ripped off and your politicians are being paid to keep it that way.

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4 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go.  All you're doing right now is cheering for a program that missed the mark badly.  It was simply another pork filled crony payoff disguised as healthcare for the masses.  ACA cost 1.6 trillion and still 10% are uninsured.

Yet every time the party you support has held power it's refused to table legislation. Let alone any serious attempt to reform. trump and the GOP had every opportunity to fix ACA  shortcomings. They refused to do so. Only now have they conceded to allow it to stand.

Of course they tried to kill it under trump. "House Republican leaders, facing a revolt among conservatives and moderates in their ranks, pulled legislation to repeal the Affordable Care Act from consideration on the House floor Friday in a major defeat for President Trump on the first legislative showdown of his presidency."

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5 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go.  All you're doing right now is cheering for a program that missed the mark badly.  It was simply another pork filled crony payoff disguised as healthcare for the masses.  ACA cost 1.6 trillion and still 10% are uninsured.

Three easy questions:

1. Were you for single payer at the time the ACA was being debated? 

2. Did you agree with Republican efforts to derail the ACA at the beginning?

3. Have you supported any Republican efforts to overturn the ACA, by any method, since it was signed into law?

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Welcome to one of the few industrialized nations that lacks universal health care. The only people who benefit from this are lawyers.

Since the poor cannot afford to pay for emergency health care, they simply default on medic bills. Some cheapskates try to blame doctors by filing "medical malpractice" lawsuits. While a few doctors make mistakes, the vast majority are competent and do the best they know how to cure patients. In a few cases, the wounded arrived so badly mangled (e.g. car wreck) that the best surgeon on the planet could not "make the victim whole."

Since hospitals predict that a certain percentage of patients will default on medical bills, they up their rates make everyone else pay.

Meanwhile, lawyers grow fat arguing the more obscure points of medical care for badly mangled patients ... time that would much better be devoted to paying surgeons, X-ray techs, physio-therapists, etc.

The middle and working classes always get stuck with the tax bill.

 

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8 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Three easy questions:

1. Were you for single payer at the time the ACA was being debated? 

2. Did you agree with Republican efforts to derail the ACA at the beginning?

3. Have you supported any Republican efforts to overturn the ACA, by any method, since it was signed into law?

No

Yes

No

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2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Don't forget insurance companies. They'll all be radically reduced with universal health care.

Wendy P.

Health care without corporate middlemen taking a cut??? Why that would be un-American!

 

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30 minutes ago, billvon said:

Yep.  Which, of course, is why they will always oppose it.

As will the doctors. all the debate is about who pays for it not what it costs. When government is sole payer i see them going to lowest bidder real fast.

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(edited)
16 minutes ago, BartsDaddy said:

As will the doctors. all the debate is about who pays for it not what it costs. When government is sole payer i see them going to lowest bidder real fast.

The doctors were the main opposition to it in Canada. It was a hell of a fight. But most politicians on both sides supported it. The government of the day was conservative. That was key.

Edited by gowlerk

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1 hour ago, BartsDaddy said:

As will the doctors. all the debate is about who pays for it not what it costs. When government is sole payer i see them going to lowest bidder real fast.

Hi Barts,

While I am no expert on these issues, I do not believe that is how Medicare works.

Jerry Baumchen

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23 hours ago, airdvr said:

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go. 

And I bet you didn't before ACA. Before ACA, the American right would fight tooth and nail any attempt to create a more universal healthcare system. Since ACA, it is now the stated position of the Republican party to repeal it and replace it with a better form of universal healthcare. That's a pretty major achievement.

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9 hours ago, airdvr said:

No

Right, so ACA has convinced you to support socialised single payer healthcare. Again, that's a pretty major achievement. Without ACA you would not have taken that step - ACA is a stepping stone to real universal healthcare in the USA. I'm not sure why you refuse to recognise that when you are living proof that it's working.

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4 minutes ago, jakee said:

And I bet you didn't before ACA. Before ACA, the American right would fight tooth and nail any attempt to create a more universal healthcare system. Since ACA, it is now the stated position of the Republican party to repeal it and replace it with a better form of universal healthcare. That's a pretty major achievement.

The American Health Care Act of 2017 (aka Trumpcare) was a bill in the 115th United States Congress at a time when the GOP held the White House and both houses of the congress.  Even GOP senators couldn't stomach it and it went nowhere.

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22 hours ago, wmw999 said:

 

Its second motive was simply to move the healthcare needle, and it’s done that. People who thought what we had was perfect now realize there are other options, and some are willing to consider it.

Wendy P. 

Only the terminally ignorant could believe that. 

Anyone with a modicum of curiosity and reading ability would know that based on multiple different healthcare outcomes what we had (and have) is seriously inferior to every developed nation with a single payer system.

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6 hours ago, jakee said:

And I bet you didn't before ACA. Before ACA, the American right would fight tooth and nail any attempt to create a more universal healthcare system. Since ACA, it is now the stated position of the Republican party to repeal it and replace it with a better form of universal healthcare. That's a pretty major achievement.

Agreed.  Even the fact that Trump spent time and energy lying about his new beautiful "health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan" (which he did no fewer than 22 times) indicates that the right knows that they have to take this seriously, even only to lie about it.

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26 minutes ago, billvon said:

Agreed.  Even the fact that Trump spent time and energy lying about his new beautiful "health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan" (which he did no fewer than 22 times) indicates that the right knows that they have to take this seriously, even only to lie about it.

Can't wait to see it!

 

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7 hours ago, jakee said:

Right, so ACA has convinced you to support socialised single payer healthcare. Again, that's a pretty major achievement. Without ACA you would not have taken that step - ACA is a stepping stone to real universal healthcare in the USA. I'm not sure why you refuse to recognise that when you are living proof that it's working.

Actually it wasn't ACA.  It was what I learned here and the opinions of others.

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Actually it wasn't ACA.  It was what I learned here and the opinions of others.

It's not a coincidence that you started listening to those opinions after ACA happened, and it's not a coincidence your opinion changed at the same time as the opinion of the leaders of the Republican party changed.

The same people here have been saying the same things about universal healthcare and socialised single payer healthcare for years and years and years prior to that, but you didn't learn from them then. ACA changed the healthcare debate in the USA from the Republican side forever, and your opinion changed as a result.

Edited by jakee

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On 4/14/2022 at 2:56 PM, kallend said:

Medical debt is almost unknown in other developed countries.  In the US it amounts to some $140Billion.

The distribution almost looks like a map of "red states".  I wonder why.

 

Souce: https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/americas-medical-debt-much-worse-we-think

county_map_m_amount_2020_1_0_0.jpg

You can start the same thread with student debt. 
 

just saying…

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