Medical debt

[kallend 1,619]

Medical debt is almost unknown in other developed countries.  In the US it amounts to some $140Billion.

The distribution almost looks like a map of "red states".  I wonder why.

 

Souce: https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/americas-medical-debt-much-worse-we-think

[airdvr 197]

But..but...Affordable Care Act!

[gowlerk 1,901]

6 minutes ago, airdvr said:

But..but...Affordable Care Act!

Which was never fully implemented in many red states. Because poor people in those places don't deserve expanded medicare.

[kallend 1,619]

33 minutes ago, airdvr said:

But..but...Affordable Care Act!

Exactly!  The states with the largest debt/capita are the Republican controlled ones that refused Medicaid expansion under ACA in order to score political points.

Thanks for pointing that out for us.

[Phil1111 905]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Medical debt is almost unknown in other developed countries.  In the US it amounts to some $140Billion.

.....  I wonder why.

For several decades it has been studied and researched in the US. The answer is at Opensecrets.org. In the US over 3000 people are employed full time. Their efforts result in the expenditure of nearly $700 million dollars a year. No its not the US defense military/industrial complex. No, its not health/medical research.

Its the US health care, pharma industrial complex and its lobbying arms. Its implementation of "useful idiots" through its advertising, propaganda and financing of politicians. Its almost six times the size of the defense lobby. Twice the size of the energy lobby and look what they've accomplished with Brent.

 

 

[ryoder 1,380]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

Astonishing what a difference there is between CO and WY. Now what could be responsible for the difference? Lemme think...lemme think...

[billvon 2,379]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

But..but...Affordable Care Act!

Exactly!  The Affordable Care Act covers most medical expenses.  The remainder were covered by something called medicaid expansion.  That had to be done on a state-by-state basis.  To help make sure this happened, the feds offer matching funds for any state that implemented that expansion, so the states wouldn't be out much money.

Needless to say, republican states refused, because that would give the people in their states a "win" that Obama could take credit for.

Below is a map of the states that did not do Medicare expansion, in yellow.  Compare it to the map above.  Notice anything?

[SkyDekker 1,120]

4 hours ago, airdvr said:

But..but...Affordable Care Act!

Say I only get my news from right wing sources and memes without saying I only get my news from right wing sources and memes.

[airdvr 197]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Say I only get my news from right wing sources and memes without saying I only get my news from right wing sources and memes.

Too easy Dek.  The OP talked about medical debt.  Let me assure you that shifting medical debt from the individual to the taxpayer isn't something I ever supported.  And ACA deductibles are in the thousands of dollars.  Not really insurance for the folks who were the target.

So instead of changing the program to better help those in need the burden was shifted to the states.  After all there are already 2,293 domestic assistance programs.  I guess we need a few more.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by airdvr

[gowlerk 1,901]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

So instead of changing the program to better help those in need the burden was shifted to the states.  After all there are already 2,293 domestic assistance programs.  I guess we need a few more.

I suppose you will be annoyed if I were to ask where those numbers and analysis are from. If not from a right wing news source, where?

[airdvr 197]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/catalog-of-federal-domestic-assistance-cfda.asp

[SkyDekker 1,120]

32 minutes ago, airdvr said:

So instead of changing the program to better help those in need the burden was shifted to the states.  After all there are already 2,293 domestic assistance programs.  I guess we need a few more.

You mean less....that 2,293 number refers (referred) to federal programs. Just so you know, that is what the F in CFDA stood for.

Do you ever think a better program could be put together if Republicans worked with Democrats, actually stood for something other than power and "own the libs" and worked for the betterment of society as a whole?

[kallend 1,619]

35 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Too easy Dek.  The OP talked about medical debt.  Let me assure you that shifting medical debt from the individual to the taxpayer isn't something I ever supported.  And ACA deductibles are in the thousands of dollars.  Not really insurance for the folks who were the target.

So instead of changing the program to better help those in need the burden was shifted to the states.  After all there are already 2,293 domestic assistance programs.  I guess we need a few more.

 

 

Given the distribution of "giver" and "taker" states essentially follows the blue/red distribution, it seems that the takers are also saddled with the most medical debt.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

39 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Too easy Dek.  The OP talked about medical debt.  Let me assure you that shifting medical debt from the individual to the taxpayer isn't something I ever supported.  And ACA deductibles are in the thousands of dollars.  Not really insurance for the folks who were the target.

So instead of changing the program to better help those in need the burden was shifted to the states.  After all there are already 2,293 domestic assistance programs.  I guess we need a few more.

 

 

We don't need a few more. We need one more: Medicare for all. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

32 minutes ago, kallend said:

Given the distribution of "giver" and "taker" states essentially follows the blue/red distribution, it seems that the takers are also saddled with the most medical debt.

Hi John,

You see, that is the trouble with facts; they are so damn factual.

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

7 hours ago, airdvr said:

But..but...Affordable Care Act!

You mean the same ObamaCare that the Rs did everything they could to torpedo, did a pretty decent job of watering down and have subsequently done an even better job of weakening through various lawsuits?

That ACA?

When the requirement that everyone have some sort of coverage went away, the fools and idiots dropped that coverage.

They thought they were 'healthy'. Or that it 'couldn't happen to them'. 

And they were wrong.

Now they're broke.

And guess who's going to pick up the cost when they can't pay for the zillions of dollars in care that they received?

One of the interesting things about reading the Herman Cain Awards is how many of the nominees & awardees end up begging for money with a GoFundMe. 

No health insurance, no savings, often no life insurance for those that died.

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

8 hours ago, airdvr said:

But..but...Affordable Care Act!

Hi airdvr,

But . . . but . . . Medicare!

Do you remember how the GOP fought Medicare when it was first proposed? 

Do you remember how the GOP said that it would bankrupt this country?

Now, my challenge to you:  Show me one politician who would advocate getting rid of Medicare today.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,379]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

So instead of changing the program to better help those in need the burden was shifted to the states.  After all there are already 2,293 domestic assistance programs.  I guess we need a few more.

So I took a look at that list.  (Sorry.)  One of the first items I came to was a set of programs under the Office of Advanced Fossil Energy R&D.  They spent $37 million in 2019 on a total of 14 programs that promoted "efficiency, reliability & flexible operations" in oil drilling and coal mining.

This is an example of the "2293 domestic assistance programs" that "help those in need?"  I guess if you define "in need" to mean "an oil company executive who is in need of a new yacht" that could make sense.

[Phil1111 905]

15 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi airdvr,

But . . . but . . . Medicare!

Do you remember how the GOP fought Medicare when it was first proposed? 

Do you remember how the GOP said that it would bankrupt this country?

Now, my challenge to you:  Show me one politician who would advocate getting rid of Medicare today.

Jerry Baumchen

What about the republican promises about the..??.. death stars...no..."death panels".

"Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley, of Iowa, said this week that Republicans will not try to repeal the Affordable Care Act if they retake the Senate in November's midterm elections, the latest signal that the GOP is abandoning its long-running effort to scrap the health-care law also known as Obamacare.' from WP yesterday.

A new poll today on ACA.  'in March 2022 found slightly more than half of the public (55%) hold a favorable opinion of the ACA   Views of the ACA are still largely driven by partisanship: nearly nine in ten Democrats (87%) along with six in ten independents (58%) view the law favorably, while eight in ten Republicans (79%) hold unfavorable views"

[airdvr 197]

5 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi airdvr,

But . . . but . . . Medicare!

Do you remember how the GOP fought Medicare when it was first proposed? 

Do you remember how the GOP said that it would bankrupt this country?

Now, my challenge to you:  Show me one politician who would advocate getting rid of Medicare today.

Jerry Baumchen

We'll never learn.  The government that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's unwavering support.

[billvon 2,379]

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

We'll never learn.  The government that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's unwavering support.

Our government is robbing Peter to pay Peter - and often doing a lot of good in the process, something you can ponder next time you drive to work on a publicly funded road, or using the air traffic control system while you are skydiving.  Or even just thinking about how we speak English and not German.

The problem is that Paul is rich.  So while he uses all that stuff that Peter paid for, often Paul pays nothing - and his companies use clever dodges to do the same.  Paul is VERY happy with the government, and he wants to keep it that way.  So he uses that money to convince all those Peters that the government, rather than Paul, is the problem.

Often, as we see here, he succeeds.

 

[lippy 764]

12 minutes ago, airdvr said:

We'll never learn.  The government that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's unwavering support.

Peter isn't minding his pockets 'cause he's too busy looking for the trickle-down

[gowlerk 1,901]

43 minutes ago, airdvr said:

We'll never learn.  The government that robs Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's unwavering support.

We are talking about healthcare. Yes publicly funded healthcare is socialism. Publicly funded schools are socialism. Publicly funded fire departments are socialism. The list can get longer. Some people claim healthcare is a basic right. I would not go that far myself, but I would say that nations which invest in it have better results for less money than yours does. And it adds a certain quality of compassion to society and even takes a lot of stress away from the middle class who always end up paying for everything. They are both Peter and Paul.

[kallend 1,619]

5 hours ago, gowlerk said:

 Some people claim healthcare is a basic right. 

Article 25 of the United Nations  Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

[airdvr 197]

My point being ACA so badly missed the mark that you're only logical response is Medicare for all.  I happen to agree that single payer is the way to go.  All you're doing right now is cheering for a program that missed the mark badly.  It was simply another pork filled crony payoff disguised as healthcare for the masses.  ACA cost 1.6 trillion and still 10% are uninsured.