kallend 1,620 #102 August 30, 2006 QuoteYou amuse me. Always pleased to be of service.Now, what argument do you have in favor of requiring 2 night jumps for a "D" license besides the fact that you had to do it and it was fun? (I had to do it too, and it was fun, but I can't see that as any justification for the requirement). Explain just how night jumps contribute to ANY of the specific privileges granted by a "D" license.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #103 August 30, 2006 Quote Now, what argument do you have in favor of requiring 2 night jumps for a "D" license besides the fact that you had to do it and it was fun? well, if you remove it, the only requirement is to do 500 jumps. So what your substitute? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #104 August 30, 2006 WHen the term "Master" was on the "D" license it made sense. Now I need to think about it. Maybe the PRO is the NEW "Master" and the night jumps could be there? But I still feel there should be Night jumps. Since there are a few who have admitted their Sunset load is pretty close to the definition of a night jump and if your doing it any way you might as well do it right. If the "D" license is the top license then we should have night jumps, live water training, CRW, VRW and TRW requirements. Just my Opinion that the license is too EASY even with 500 jumps.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #105 August 30, 2006 I feel that night dives test our ability to function in unusual situations that may tend to overwhelm our abilities to maintain level headed thinking. If you can handle a situation that takes alot of level headed thinking and good decision making,then you may be better equipped for the shit that may hit the fan when working with students.Having seen and experienced just a small spoonful of the shit that is possible with skydiving,I know it is just a matter of time(numbers of skydives)before everyone gets to see or experience some scary shit(if they skydive long enough).So why not test our selfs in a somewhat controlled scary and unusual situation,before we get to test our abilities with our students, when shit is going south in a hurry.Like emergency exits,or premature deployments on the step and on and on and on.......I remember when they changed the manditory cutaway and reserve deployment to 10 hanging harness simulations for the tandem rating.Wow! that must get your blood racing, hanging in that harness knowing that if you fucked up you would have a chance to do it again.Instructors should be put to the test in situations that crank up the fun meter(stress that is)before they are turned loose on the students.Everyone nowdays wants to make it easier to get the prize.In my opinnion,the D-license requirements are just the way they should be.We need to stop making things so easy.I am glad they increased the # of skydives for the D-license to 500 by the way.Do your night dives people!You may love them alot. If you aint got the guts,or you really are blind as a cave fish at night,then get the restricted license. It's all fun and games till the pilot chute gets ya in the eye,and it's not yours. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #106 August 30, 2006 Just my Opinion that the license is too EASY even with 500 jumps... *** They raised it to 500 because as stated in the SIM... The "D" license holder will not longer have to buy beer for each incremental 100 jumps once the 'Expert' status is achieved. At least we get a 'few' extra cases out of 'em! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #107 August 30, 2006 So that is why it seems we live in a dry county now. Almost all the Staff here is "D" licensed and those that aren't don't jump enough to hit those 100's very much.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #108 August 30, 2006 You, Matthew and Airtwardo have given good reasons why some (non-existent at this time) Master Skydiver Award should be difficult to get. Nothing in your reasoning applies to a license. You continue to confuse "license" with "award". A license is just permission to do something. The night jump requirement for a D LICENSE has no relation whatever to any of the permissions granted by that license. This is obvious since the permissions granted by a restricted D are identical to the permissions with a regular D - a clear admission that night jumps are actually irrelevant. The "sunset load gone bad" argument is ridiculous. You don't need a D to get on a sunset load. Want to do night demos? - make night jumps part of the PRO rating.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #109 August 30, 2006 QuoteWHen the term "Master" was on the "D" license it made sense. Now I need to think about it. Maybe the PRO is the NEW "Master" and the night jumps could be there? But I still feel there should be Night jumps. Since there are a few who have admitted their Sunset load is pretty close to the definition of a night jump and if your doing it any way you might as well do it right. If the "D" license is the top license then we should have night jumps, live water training, CRW, VRW and TRW requirements. Just my Opinion that the license is too EASY even with 500 jumps. ------------------------------- li·cense noun. (a) Official or legal permission to do or own a specified thing. See synonyms at permission. (b) A document, plate, or tag that is issued as proof of official or legal permission: example: a driver's license ------------------------------- Maybe the "D" is not actually needed. It's become more of a merit badge than an actual license. The extra things you are allowed to do with a "D" might be better if associated with ratings. As for "what would you replace it with", I would suggest advanced canopy training with a sign off from a canopy coach would go a long way towards reducing the epidemic of deaths and injuries under perfectly good canopies. USPA would also have to come up with a way of rating canopy coaches.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #110 August 30, 2006 We cant forget that a "D" license holder can act as a Coach. So lets keep it as is minus the night jumps and put the Night Jumps on the PRO rating? JMO. If I am elected....J/K. Although I was asked.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #111 August 30, 2006 QuoteWe cant forget that a "D" license holder can act as a Coach. . I seem to remember hearing that as a proposal, but I can't find it in the 2006 SIM. Do you have a reference?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #112 August 30, 2006 The full Board Minutes from the AZ meeting I believe. I saw it on the USPA web sight and will try and look, in between "work".An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #113 August 30, 2006 QuoteWe cant forget that a "D" license holder can act as a Coach. They can jump with students (at the discretion of the DZ), but not sign off coach jumps or perform any of the other duties of a coach. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #114 August 30, 2006 Can ACT as a Coach.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #115 August 30, 2006 QuoteCan ACT as a Coach. Yep. No DZ permission required. The board approved changing the SIM 21-0. To be pedantic - According to the rule it looks like a Coach can take 99 unlicensed skydivers up for a 100-way while four D-licensed skydivers can't take one student up for a five-way without S&TA approval. Coaches' freefall training must be supervised by an Instructor while we D-license holders aren't restricted by that clause. Quoting the new SIM section 2-1E6: Students training for group freefall (waiverable by S&TA) a. Student freefall training for group freefall jumps must be conducted by either: 1. A USPA Coach under the supervision of a USPA Instructor or; 2. D-license holders provided there is a minimum ratio of one D-license holder to one student with a maximum of a 4-way. Neither the SIM nor Category E on the ISP proficiency card has been updated on the USPA web site to match this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #116 August 30, 2006 QuoteNo DZ permission required. Well, I mentioned that since the rules in the SIM are only minimum requirements and DZs can set higher standards. Our DZ does not allow D-license holders (that aren't coaches) to jump with students. I doubt we have any coaches that aren't D-licensed too. I think a D-license, and a time in sport requirement, should be part of any instructional rating. But that's a different story. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
recovercrachead 0 #117 August 31, 2006 Whats up with all these rules? Shut up and jump and dont kill yourself. Every answer for me to requirement question is Yes and I have done that before. Thats what I Know.Track high, Pull LOW!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #118 August 31, 2006 QuoteWhats up with all these rules? Shut up and jump and dont kill yourself. Every answer for me to requirement question is Yes and I have done that before. Thats what I Know. Fortunately, license requirements are not all about you and what you have done and what you know.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #119 August 31, 2006 Quote The "sunset load gone bad" argument is ridiculous. You don't need a D to get on a sunset load. You don't need a C license to do an 8 way either. Or a B to do a group jump. I'm not following the point on this line of reasoning, John. With the accuracy requirement being moved to the C, maybe the D serves no purpose to you anymore. But again, how would you alter the D reqs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
recovercrachead 0 #120 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhats up with all these rules? Shut up and jump and dont kill yourself. Every answer for me to requirement question is Yes and I have done that before. Thats what I Know. Fortunately, license requirements are not all about you and what you have done and what you know. I dont know anything and I haven't done nothing but the answer is still Yes.Track high, Pull LOW!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #121 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteWhats up with all these rules? Shut up and jump and dont kill yourself. Every answer for me to requirement question is Yes and I have done that before. Thats what I Know. Fortunately, license requirements are not all about you and what you have done and what you know. QuoteI dont know anything and I haven't done nothing but the answer is still Yes. John you have a way of bring out the truth in a debate. My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #122 August 31, 2006 QuoteQuote The "sunset load gone bad" argument is ridiculous. You don't need a D to get on a sunset load. You don't need a C license to do an 8 way either. Or a B to do a group jump. I'm not following the point on this line of reasoning, John. With the accuracy requirement being moved to the C, maybe the D serves no purpose to you anymore. But again, how would you alter the D reqs? Advanced canopy proficiency: see Here. Might cut down the fatality rate. But to be quite honest, I don't see the point of the "D" license. As I already wrote, it is more like a merit badge than a true license.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LyraM45 0 #123 August 31, 2006 QuoteThe particular requirement that is hanging me up is the night jump. Does that actually demonstrate skill, or does it merely demonstrate good vision? This is what I don't understand either! I have horrible night vision, and have even been denied for a FAA first class medical because I have the crappiest vision in the dark; no depth preception what so ever too! So, even if I can execute all of the other requirements for a D-license and could even be the best skydiver in the universe or something, the USPA won't reward me a D-license because I can't see at night??? That sucks! This is a mute point for me right now since I'm so far from a D, but it's the principle of the thing that pisses me off.... grrr. Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
recovercrachead 0 #124 August 31, 2006 This thread need a value pack of tissuesTrack high, Pull LOW!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,620 #125 August 31, 2006 QuoteThis thread need a value pack of tissues Do you think that comment was helpful in ANY way?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
