ZigZagMarquis 8 #176 April 3, 2007 QuoteNight Jumps? What the hell for? Why the hell not? It proves that not only do you have the courage to do it, it also proves you have the skills, disipline and intelligence to deal with the added complexities and yes, risks, to jump at night. Quote Let those who want to expose themselves go ahead and do it. Why make it a requirement for everyone? Its not a requirement for everyone. Its only a requirement if you want a D-License. You can skydive your butt off forever in this sport without a D-License. You are not entitled to a D-License. If you don't want to jump at night, you don't get a D-License. Period. It took me a long time to get my 2 night jumps in before I got my D-License. Afterwards, I felt pretty damn good about myself for having done them. I've got about 20-some night jumps now and feel good about myself for having done them and feel like I've accomplished something more in the sport and for myself for having done them. I also feel that the folks with D-License #'s a lot lower then mine that had to do no-shit water jumps & night jumps to get their "D" have accomplished something slightly more and demonstraighted more gutts then I and I give them an amount of more respect for it. Call it pride, call it what ever, flame away, but I don't think the USPA should remove the Night Jump requirement for getting a D-License. If they do, it should be called a "D minus" License. ... and for the folks out there that currently hold a D-License and had to do a water jump back when to get it... call your's a "D plus" License... cause y'all got bigger stones then a lot of the folk in the sport today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #177 April 3, 2007 I'm sorry you just don't get it. Maybe this will shed some light. I see your 13 years in sport. What equipment did you learn on? Would you have all of us go back to that for training just because you did it? I would not wish the surplus T-10 (with homemade mods), shot&half capewells and belly reserve that I jumped on my worst enemy when there is so much better for them now. You want to jump it for fun? I'm with you. Make it a "requirement" for everyone? No thanks.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #178 April 3, 2007 Quote Make it a "requirement" for everyone? No thanks. Pops, All you say is true, but I don't know where you're coming up with the "requirement for everyone" speak. Night jumps are NOT a requirement for everyone. Night jumps are only a requirement if you want a D-License. If you don't want to complete all the points necessary to get a D-License, you don't get one. I realize you may not be saying this, but you're not entitled to a D-License and if then you can't do things like be in instructor or get a Pro-Rating because you don't hold a D-License, that's just tough IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bozo 0 #179 April 3, 2007 You know...the "boogieman" is out at nite. Maybe thats why Pops doesnt want to jump at nite. As somebody said previously..."suck it up and do your nite jumps" or be happy with your C. Ive done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #180 April 3, 2007 i agree that not everyone should do night jumps or required to do them - but to lessen a standard to make it easier is just not right - night jumps add to a jumpers expeience and skill - compensating for the lack of light, strange windshifts that seem to happen at different altitudes at night, reduced depth perception, learning to be aware of other canopies and were they are, staging openings for safety all of these skills help a jumper even in daylight or on a day when clouds move in or at dusk - in a time when we need more training to stay safe reducing requiremnets for a few in my opinion reduces safety for all - sorry about being blunt but all to often any more the standards are reduced to quiet a few who are not willing to put forth the effort to achieve the goal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #181 April 3, 2007 Quote...Night jumps are only a requirement if you want a D-License. That's what the entire thread is all about...requirement for D-license. QuoteIf you don't want to complete all the points necessary to get a D-License, you don't get one. We may want to do demos with a Pro rating. We may want to be Tandem Instructors. Quote...and if then you can't do things like be in instructor or get a Pro-Rating Coach Rating - B license AFF Instructor - C license IAD/Static Line Instructor - C license Tandem Instructor - D license Pro Rating - D license There is no requirement for doing night jumps with ANY instructor or pro rating - only to get a D-license. No Tandem Instructor or Pro has to do night jumps. Why the requirement for D-license? Wouldn't it make more sense to be required to have an optional endorsement on your license if you wanted to do night jumps with any rating whatsoever? Quote...because you don't hold a D-License, that's just tough IMO. I'm sorry that you are being so hard on this. So I take it that you would be opposed to any change for D-license requirements with respect to night jumps? In that case, I was hoping you could give us some input on why it's a requirement for D-license.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #182 April 3, 2007 Quote a d license is required for most instructor ratings No it isn't. The Coach rating requires a B license. AFF requires a C, Static Line requires a C. The Pro rating requires a C. Tandem requires a DOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #183 April 3, 2007 QuoteThis one of the things that makes it all so very unnecessary and so very funny. So they jump into a lighted-up-like-daylight area and call it a night jump. What have they proven other than the ability to find a lighted-up-like-daylight area from some sort of altitude. But it counts toward the D even if you miss the entire area and break yourself up! They've proven that they can handle conditions that are definitely not as good as daylight. I have 4 out landings. 2 of 2 night jumps were outs. Perspective and ability to ID the wind shift are definitely compromised. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #184 April 3, 2007 >So they jump into a lighted-up-like-daylight area and call it a night >jump. What have they proven other than the ability to find a >lighted-up-like-daylight area from some sort of altitude. Overcoming misperceptions like this one is one of the reasons to _do_ a night jump. It's like the C-licensed guy who's never done a demo who thinks they're a piece of cake because the landing area is big. It takes a few demo jumps to realize that there is a LOT more to it than they think there is - which is why you need experience and demonstrated skill before you get a PRO license (or a D license, come to think of it.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #185 April 3, 2007 sorry i thought the aff required a d - i was talking about instructor / examiner ratings - was a d required for aff before the change to 500 jumps ? pro and coaches are not instructors but coach comes close - not totally in agreement with low # jumpers being coaches but it's better than the old days of teaching ourselves at 50-100 jumps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ninjaswooper 0 #186 April 3, 2007 Quote everyone in skydiving knows that 500 jumps is just the beginning learning Exactly, before I had 500 jumps I was jealous of the people who passed before me who got their Ds before the change... Since hitting a grand, I start to sometimes doubt that even I, d licensed and instructor rated, am qualified to be called "expert". To me, reducing the requirements for the license is ludicrous. What priviledge do non-night jumpers hope to receive by qualifying for d-licenses anyway? Are those avoiding "excess" danger just dying to be tandem instructors or do they want the bragging rights of holding the highest license in their sport? If it's bragging rights, in a sport for those with big balls, non-night jumpers have some growing to do. If your night vision is bad, that's one thing, otherwise, get a sack! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pwln 0 #187 April 4, 2007 1 of my night jumps I landed just out, in corn even. The thing with night jumps is that people cheat. Full Moon, Perfectly clear skys. I want a night jump with NO moon. The LZ would have lights, so why need the moon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #188 April 4, 2007 jumping near chicago a no moon night isn't that dark unless you land out the last 40 ft to the ground is hard to see Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pwln 0 #189 April 4, 2007 So the people that are afraid to do a night jump should get one in near a major city and on a full moon night. Problem solved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #190 April 4, 2007 QuoteIt was 200 Jump requirement for most D License Holders. When was that requirement was changed?? 2001? 2002? Sure. FAI has changed the requirements. It had some sense. BTW it think the title is "experienced" and not "expert". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROK 0 #191 April 4, 2007 I'll share what night jumps taught me... Part of my attraction to skydiving is in the details. If you sit back and think about it, there are so many important details that you NEED to remember and practice, so you and your friends can remain alive. Some become complacent about details when an act is repeated over and over again. It's just plain human nature. My first night jump was spectacular. I was hooked. My second was awesome, until I came in to land. I hadn't removed my goggles. Fifty feet agl on my final, my goggles fogged up 100%. Good ole Florida humidity. I was blind as hell, crashed and burned having flared nicely AFTER I face planted. I had overlooked the one small detail. A very nice reminder that has kept me on track and in the now. Night jumps taught me to never be complacent in this sport. I watch people and it seems that many are. How many of you do not do a gear check before every jump? Be honest with yourself. In the words of TK, "get you a big ole student canopy and go jump!" PS- My third night jump was a five-way. Looking at the grinning faces of the others in the darkness was an awesome experience... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastphil 0 #192 April 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteIt was 200 Jump requirement for most D License Holders. When was that requirement was changed?? 2001? 2002? Sure. FAI has changed the requirements. It had some sense. BTW it think the title is "experienced" and not "expert". hnmmm, thought mine said "expert", I'll have to go back and re-read it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #193 April 4, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt was 200 Jump requirement for most D License Holders. When was that requirement was changed?? 2001? 2002? Sure. FAI has changed the requirements. It had some sense. BTW it think the title is "experienced" and not "expert". hnmmm, thought mine said "expert", I'll have to go back and re-read it... USPA or FAI ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigdad510 1 #194 April 4, 2007 My very first night jump, I weighed 135 pounds, and had about 180-200 pounds of gear strapped to me with a lovel reserve I would never have time to use on my chest.. It was dark, no moon, and the exit altitude was 800 feet, plus or minus 150 feet. I'd have a direct pass to hell if I didn't say I was scared. It was a combat equipment jump out of a 141 Starlifter with about 100 plus other jumpers, jumping rounds. That was back in 1994. I can tell you that the jump for me proved a lot of things. One big thing that it did, was increase my confidence in my ability to do things that are not normal. Sky diving is not exactly a normal act, but it’s something we have learned to overcome to make it a “normal act”. Doing night skydives should increase you confidence, without making you cocky, about skydiving. Doing a night skydive for me, made me more situational aware of what I was doing, what I needed to do, and made me more safety conscious (which I always should be) than normal. They are kicks in the ass that I need every now and then to not get complacent. Should it be required for a D license? As far as the ability to do other things, I can see the point of many people here that it’s unnecessary to do a lot of things. One thing we do have to remember that as you progress thru the sport, and get higher ratings, higher licenses, other jumps will more than likely come to you for advice on different aspects of the sport. How can you hold the highest license, and not experience skydiving at night, so that you can explain that type of jump to other jumpers. Some people get their B license and show up for their first night jump. Who do they look to for advice, people with higher qualifications than themselves. I’m not saying that it’s right, but the USPA does have it as a requirement, and since they do, you can’t say you’re fully qualified to receive that license if you choose not to meet the standard that is outlined before you. Maybe a solution is having letter codes like drivers license’s. You drive a car,, good, you get “C” code. Know how to drive a motorcycle; you get an “M” code. Are “D” licensed skydivers that is qualified to jump at night you get a “DN” code. You should never lower standards in order to achieve a goal. It reduces the effect the rating actually has. All I keep reading about is we should have more training on gear, on canopy control, different skills in the air, everything about we need more training, we need more training, we need more training. Then you have people that want to remove requirements to get the highest license in the sport. Doesn’t make much sense to me. We want the FAA to stay out of out business, but we want to give them more reasons to be in our business. We already know that there is too much pencil whipping of records out there to get ratings. USPA doesn’t need to remove this one. Maybe the answer is there’s another level that is higher. Or the requirements to be certain instructors are placed at maybe a “C” license with additional documentation. Why not get rid of being able to land within a certain distance of your target landing area, who needs that anyway. No, we do need these standards to demonstrate competence at all levels. It’s about being having as much knowledge as you can in order to make you a better skydiver. If you’ve never jumped at night. You’re missing out on a lot of things you can learn about yourself, your equipment, and the skydive. I’d rather make 90% of my jumps at night just because of the challenge and the adrenaline that goes thru me. It’s a choice, and everyone out there has the choice to do it to meet the requirements. It’s your choice to do it to get you “D”, or stay with a “C”. Because you choose not to do it, don’t take away from the people who DO choose to go that extra step to achieve something higher. My second skydive night jump was a three-way, and we turned three points. That was an awesome feeling for three jumpers that had less than 200 jumps. And, everyone on the load had a stand up landing, and by the way. It wasn’t that easy to see the dropzone and about 10 cars lighting up the landing area from 14000 feet. Don’t knock it until you try it!Brad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #195 April 4, 2007 Ive done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. Quote 220??? Is THAT ALL ???!!! ..........You fuckin' pussy! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #196 April 4, 2007 Quote >So they jump into a lighted-up-like-daylight area and call it a night >jump. What have they proven other than the ability to find a >lighted-up-like-daylight area from some sort of altitude. Overcoming misperceptions like this one is one of the reasons to _do_ a night jump. Sorry, Bill but it's not a misperception. It's a call-it-like-it-is statement of reality. But this is a side issue and not dealing directly with the question at hand. QuoteIt's like the C-licensed guy who's never done a demo who thinks they're a piece of cake because the landing area is big. It takes a few demo jumps to realize that there is a LOT more to it than they think there is - which is why you need experience and demonstrated skill before you get a PRO license Agreed, that is a misperception by the C-licensed guy because doing demos presents different and totally unfamiliar conditions at every different location. Still, none of that has anything to do with night jumps being required. If you CHOOSE to do night jumps (for fun, for demos, whatever) then yes, you need the training and the demonstative proof that you can handle it...ergo, the Night Jump endorsement on a D-license. A lot of inputs here but no valid reasons for night jumps being a requirement so far. I'm beginning to think there really ARE no valid reasons for it. You guys putting in your "I like night jumps because..." stories, that all fine and well and I'm happy for you. Please include some input on the question at hand - What valid reasons make night jumps a requirement for a D-license?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #197 April 4, 2007 QuoteIve done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. Quote 220??? Is THAT ALL ???!!! ..........You fuckin' pussy! Jeezz.. Tough crowd.. I only have 60 something! Night wingsuit is the best! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #198 April 4, 2007 What valid reasons make night jumps a requirement for a D-license? Quote 3/4 of the planet is covered in water...make a water jump. 1/2 the day is covered in darkness...make a night jump. Do what I do and CHEAT ........bring along lots of light! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bozo 0 #199 April 4, 2007 QuoteIve done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. Quote 220??? Is THAT ALL ???!!! ..........You fuckin' pussy! Nope , Jim....hes the guy whos doing all the complaining he cant get a D because he wont do a couple itty bitty nite jumps. It doesnt matter that countless jumpers before him adhered to the requirement, he has to have a reason why. Well....heres the reason why.....it filters out the fuckin' pussies. Somebody had to say it. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #200 April 4, 2007 Gotta love the ego coming out. It's funny how a few of you are falling back on the "pussy" or "scared" idea. If YOU weren't a pussy, you'd be a smoke jumper into a real fire. Maybe that should be a requirement for a license/rating, eh? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 17 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
popsjumper 2 #196 April 4, 2007 Quote >So they jump into a lighted-up-like-daylight area and call it a night >jump. What have they proven other than the ability to find a >lighted-up-like-daylight area from some sort of altitude. Overcoming misperceptions like this one is one of the reasons to _do_ a night jump. Sorry, Bill but it's not a misperception. It's a call-it-like-it-is statement of reality. But this is a side issue and not dealing directly with the question at hand. QuoteIt's like the C-licensed guy who's never done a demo who thinks they're a piece of cake because the landing area is big. It takes a few demo jumps to realize that there is a LOT more to it than they think there is - which is why you need experience and demonstrated skill before you get a PRO license Agreed, that is a misperception by the C-licensed guy because doing demos presents different and totally unfamiliar conditions at every different location. Still, none of that has anything to do with night jumps being required. If you CHOOSE to do night jumps (for fun, for demos, whatever) then yes, you need the training and the demonstative proof that you can handle it...ergo, the Night Jump endorsement on a D-license. A lot of inputs here but no valid reasons for night jumps being a requirement so far. I'm beginning to think there really ARE no valid reasons for it. You guys putting in your "I like night jumps because..." stories, that all fine and well and I'm happy for you. Please include some input on the question at hand - What valid reasons make night jumps a requirement for a D-license?My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #197 April 4, 2007 QuoteIve done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. Quote 220??? Is THAT ALL ???!!! ..........You fuckin' pussy! Jeezz.. Tough crowd.. I only have 60 something! Night wingsuit is the best! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #198 April 4, 2007 What valid reasons make night jumps a requirement for a D-license? Quote 3/4 of the planet is covered in water...make a water jump. 1/2 the day is covered in darkness...make a night jump. Do what I do and CHEAT ........bring along lots of light! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bozo 0 #199 April 4, 2007 QuoteIve done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. Quote 220??? Is THAT ALL ???!!! ..........You fuckin' pussy! Nope , Jim....hes the guy whos doing all the complaining he cant get a D because he wont do a couple itty bitty nite jumps. It doesnt matter that countless jumpers before him adhered to the requirement, he has to have a reason why. Well....heres the reason why.....it filters out the fuckin' pussies. Somebody had to say it. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #200 April 4, 2007 Gotta love the ego coming out. It's funny how a few of you are falling back on the "pussy" or "scared" idea. If YOU weren't a pussy, you'd be a smoke jumper into a real fire. Maybe that should be a requirement for a license/rating, eh? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 17 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
airtwardo 6 #198 April 4, 2007 What valid reasons make night jumps a requirement for a D-license? Quote 3/4 of the planet is covered in water...make a water jump. 1/2 the day is covered in darkness...make a night jump. Do what I do and CHEAT ........bring along lots of light! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bozo 0 #199 April 4, 2007 QuoteIve done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. Quote 220??? Is THAT ALL ???!!! ..........You fuckin' pussy! Nope , Jim....hes the guy whos doing all the complaining he cant get a D because he wont do a couple itty bitty nite jumps. It doesnt matter that countless jumpers before him adhered to the requirement, he has to have a reason why. Well....heres the reason why.....it filters out the fuckin' pussies. Somebody had to say it. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #200 April 4, 2007 Gotta love the ego coming out. It's funny how a few of you are falling back on the "pussy" or "scared" idea. If YOU weren't a pussy, you'd be a smoke jumper into a real fire. Maybe that should be a requirement for a license/rating, eh? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 17 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
bozo 0 #199 April 4, 2007 QuoteIve done 220 nite jumps....loved em all. Quote 220??? Is THAT ALL ???!!! ..........You fuckin' pussy! Nope , Jim....hes the guy whos doing all the complaining he cant get a D because he wont do a couple itty bitty nite jumps. It doesnt matter that countless jumpers before him adhered to the requirement, he has to have a reason why. Well....heres the reason why.....it filters out the fuckin' pussies. Somebody had to say it. bozo Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #200 April 4, 2007 Gotta love the ego coming out. It's funny how a few of you are falling back on the "pussy" or "scared" idea. If YOU weren't a pussy, you'd be a smoke jumper into a real fire. Maybe that should be a requirement for a license/rating, eh? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 17 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
popsjumper 2 #200 April 4, 2007 Gotta love the ego coming out. It's funny how a few of you are falling back on the "pussy" or "scared" idea. If YOU weren't a pussy, you'd be a smoke jumper into a real fire. Maybe that should be a requirement for a license/rating, eh? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
