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Croc

Should D license requirements be changed?

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...Would you do that with todays canopies? :o



Why sure! A Lightening and a Triathlon come to mind easily...what in the world are YOU thinking?



We usually jump lightnings at 1.3-1.5. Others jump tri's at 2.0.

I've seen the 2.0 guys chicken out on landing a diamond, well the wings did ;)

I've seen plenty of 2stack landings on the lightnings.

But no way am I landing a 4way on a lightning 126 at 1.3! That's what i mean with modern canopies. SMALL canopies...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

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This has been discussed as long as I've been skydiving.

Bottom line - who needs a "D" license anyway? What additional privileges does it get you?




Pro Rating...and to get to jump air shows!;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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I happen to love night jumps (I think I have 9 now and can't wait to do more), but I do think they're sort of a strange requirement.

Licenses give privileges and show competence. But you only need a B license to do night jumps. So anyone with a B should be prepared for night jumps. Seems like if you can't/won't do night jumps, you should have to get a waiver for your B license, not your D. I guess the difference is that once you've reached a D, you are expected to be competent at night jumps whereas a B license holder is only allowed to do them.

I think it's time for a USPA E license... one that someone like me shouldn't be anywhere close to being qualified for. A true overall expert license. Or maybe something like the FAA's Wings program for pilots... a way to get credit for training beyond anything required for licenses. Canopy courses, freefly coaching, CRW coaching, wingsuits, etc.

Dave

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IOne can learn to competently instruct and jumpmaster students without ever having jumped at night, or having ever landed within 200' of a target. Likewise, a jumper who has minimal RW skills can develop an accuracy skill set worthy of a PRO rating. Etc.

Requiring a "D" license before one may attempt to earn these ratings is like requiring the candidate to place a piece of cheese in his shoe. It is utterly irrelevant to the task at hand. I suspect the exchange of money plays a strong role in the decision to require a "D"..



Actually you don't need a D to get a Coach, AFFI, S/L-I or IAD-I rating.

http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.pdf/2006IRMEssentials.pdf
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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I think that it all boils down to someones security blanket. I have 18 or 20 night jumps, everything from solo to 4-way and even some CReW. If your not safe going outside of your own limits than don't do night jumps and settle for a "C" license.

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I probably won't get a D as I most likely will not do any night jumps (poor night vision) and I will not get a waiver. I am satisfied with my license. Is it whining to suggest that of all the possible requirements for an expert license a jump is selected that to many jumpers is totally irrelevant? I don't think so! I just wanted to see what other people thought about night jumps.
"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

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It's like when I tell my kids not to put their feet up on the couch with their shoes on, or not to climb up on the kitchen counter to reach stuff in the cabinet, or -especially - not to run in the living room. "Why not?", they'd whine. "Because Grandma didn't allow me to, so now you can't either," I'd reply. End of discussion.

Why do you have to pass these requirements? Because I had to, so now you do, too.

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but if he or she can consistently land a parachute at 50 mph, isn't that a demonstration of expert skill?



If someone can consistently land a parachute at 50 mph it doesn’t show skill it show stupidly. No one can land at 50 mph.

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I probably won't get a D as I most likely will not do any night jumps (poor night vision) and I will not get a waiver.



All humans have “poor night vision” get over it. That is part of what make a night jump. If you could see really well it would be a “day jump”.

If you want a “D” Lic. Carry the load if not move on.
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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I have to disagree with this statement. As a skydiving instructor, you should be able to teach all aspects of the sport, the first jump course, basic RW, advanced RW, canopy control and accuracy, night jumps, water training, and even gear inspections and packing.



Totally agree ;). So everyone should complete 10 wing suite jump, 5 skysurf, 50 freefly and 3 style jumps to in resaonable time :P. Have I missed any other disciplines?

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I personally think that we should have a common sense course for getting the D license. How many accidents and death occur each year with those who hold that high and mightly D.

When years ago you would expect a A license holder to have a accident. Not now, or is that there are alot more experienced jumpers then lower experience numbers.

I know with over 400 plus jumps I still am very conserative. Openings at 3000 feet with a wing load of 1.0 to following the rules including no hook turns etc...


So why are we still loosing jumpers????
Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

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I don't know that you should have to do night jumps for your D but I still want to do one if for no other reason than the experience of rolling over on my back and looking at the stars with no outside light. I t has to be an awsome feeling.


I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

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Your swooping example is a terrible one. Accuracy is definately a prerequsite to swooping. If that person can't be accurate while going fast, they shouldn't be going fast.

That said, I'd love to see some basic CRW in the USPA license regiment. I think there's too many people who just don't know how to handle themselves while being close to other jumpers under canopy.

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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Well, your're right, I don't know anything about swooping. Just thought there might be some better requirements for a D license than a jump most people will never do again.
"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

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You are mistaken if you think that all humans have poor night vision. Most young people have very good night vision. And I am over it, thanks.
"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

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That said, I'd love to see some basic CRW in the USPA license regiment.
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Yup. I very much agree. I'd like to see some braked approach requirements mixed in with the accuracy stuff, as well. I think that is one of the most neglected, could-save-your-ass skills that can be aquired in the sport.

I think there's too many people who just don't know how to handle themselves while being close to other jumpers under canopy. ***


Also agree. And some of them even fly some pretty hot canopies. It makes me chuckle when they bitch about traffic in the packing area.

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You are mistaken if you think that all humans have poor night vision. Most young people have very good night vision. And I am over it, thanks.



If I am mistaken how come humans use so many lights at night? It might be because thay can't see very well in the dark.:P
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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I have nothing wrong to say about hook turns other then if done correctly you win if done incorrectly the ground wins.

Timing is everything. But seeing some 100 jumper attempt it I see an accident just about to happen. Been there and seen it.

Best words is best to be safe then sorry... Look at the accidents reports in the past few years..
Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

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I would have to say that the wingsuit flyer that flys his wingsuit on a night jump, deploys his VX 79, docks with another canopy, breaks free and does a 270 approach and lands in the center of the peas is an expert!!!!!!:D




Dude, that is soooo yesterday......make it challenging already.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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This has been discussed as long as I've been skydiving.

Bottom line - who needs a "D" license anyway? What additional privileges does it get you?




Tandem Instructors.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I would have to say that the wingsuit flyer that flys his wingsuit on a night jump, deploys his VX 79, docks with another canopy, breaks free and does a 270 approach and lands in the center of the peas is an expert!!!!!!:D




Dude, that is soooo yesterday......make it challenging already.



Throws a wingover, cowboy, lazyboy, ghostrider into the swoop as they land in the peas. ;)


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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This thread has failed to generate the kind of discussion I was hoping for so I am starting a new related thread.
"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

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