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stayhigh

Those who jump without an AAD. Are you okay with dying?

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Do you have family to look after?

Kids?

Pets?

Are you financially struggling?

Secret death wish?

What factor made you jump out of airplane knowing that if you do not pull you will die 100%

Is skydiving more fun that way?

Ultimate rush comes only by taking the ultimate risk?

I for one, think that skydiving without an AAD is the "REAL" skydiving. Knowing that it can possibly kill me makes it fun, giving the ultimate high.

Am I hell bent on killing myself? Absolutely not. Every time when I throw my PC that is an act of self perseverance. Every time when I track away that is an act of survival. Checking my gear thoroughly, keeping up with maintenance, wearing sit belt to the dz when I drive, those are an act of survival.

You can wear condom all day long but that doesn't make "REAL" sex. You can't make babies that way.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I've got 10,000 jumps in 22 years. I am fully aware I am FAR more likely to die in skydiving from other causes than a no pull (low turn, canopy collision, CRW wrap, low cutaway, screwed up emergency procedures.) I don't have some fantasy that an AAD will keep me from dying in skydiving. I think of the 100ish people I have known who died skydiving over the past years, 1 - maybe 2 - could have been helped by an AAD?

I increase my odds of living greatly by not swooping, jumping larger canopies, only jumping on small loads/dzs... Far more so than by having an AAD>

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And those who say, "Oh, we do not like to pick up after your scattered remains."

that's complete BS.

I've seen no pulls.

No skydiver is out there picking shit up beside the county coroner guys who gets paid to do so. It is their job. They've seen plenty of death, and in fact these guys gets super amused by skydiving death.

There are three types of impact by the way. If you go in flat, your limbs go flying off, if you go in vertical, you turn into one fat mush, and if you carry some momentum and hit sideways(ie tracking) you might have somewhat of a recognizable body.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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You made an entire post around the term "real" as I've already pointed out how historically manipulative and shitty it is?. Why don't you just call it 'more dangerous'? I use an AAD and guess what, I'm a skydiver. The random guy who did a tandem last weekend, he's a skydiver and his girlfriend is too. You are either a skydiver or you aren't. There is no levels of "realness". You probably use the terms "real men", "real women", "real american". I wouldn't be surprised if you are a sexist/bigot because using "real" is the primary word they use to put down and control people. This thread is a joke. You simply accept more risk than other people and in no way does it make you more of a skydiver than them.

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I'm okay with dying.

:P

Why do you get so defensive? You feel guilty about it or what?

How is being a passenger in front of someone, having little or no knowledge about actual skydiving makes you a skydiver?

I've heard that plenty of times, oh my son is a skydiver, he did a tandem, oh my friend is a skydiver, he went and did a tandem last summer.

When you do a tandem, you've skydived. Doesn't make you a skydiver.

oh look here is a "base jumper"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ1dfdW9w30
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I am also OK with dying.

I'm not ok with the "real" term being used to manipulate people into a stereotype. It has been too many years, it's 2015 now people can be whatever they want and it doesn't effect the realness. Chances are you have never even considered it. By using "real" you imply there is "less" so if you are a "real" skydiver everyone else that doesn't conform to your ideals is "less".

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Like I said in earlier post, the thrill of the fact that I will die if I don't pull makes it fun for me.

Just like those unprotected sex with a stranger. The fact that you might get the bugs are the fun part right? :S
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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stayhigh

Like I said in earlier post, the thrill of the fact that I will die if I don't pull makes it fun for me.

Just like those unprotected sex with a stranger. The fact that you might get the bugs are the fun part right? :S




Cool, it makes it fun for you. That doesn't make it any more/less skydiving than someone who doesn't find that fun.

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Apparently there are only 4 dz.commer without an AAD.

Airtec/Vigil.

You win.

and One crazy mofo who doesn't use an AAD but scared of dying. You got kids or what? If you do, don't be so selfish, buy one, seeing grieving family at the dz, doing an ash dive sucks.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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stayhigh

Apparently there are only 4 dz.commer without an AAD.

Airtec/Vigil.

You win.

and One crazy mofo who doesn't use an AAD but scared of dying. You got kids or what? If you do, don't be so selfish, buy one, seeing grieving family at the dz, doing an ash dive sucks.



I can't even call you the name I want to because I will get banned....

You want to scare everyone into thinking your way of skydiving is the only way. That your way of thinking is the only way. You are wrong on so many levels it pains me.

First, I don't jump with an AAD. Why? Because 99% of my jumps are CF, where an AAD is of minimal help and can probably cause more problems than it can fix. AAD's are not compatible with every type of jump.

Second, I have kids. They are fully aware that I might die from skydiving. I have also talked to them about not jumping anymore and they both thought it was important that I live my life in a way that I am happy. They are comfortable with the level of risk I take and are supportive of my jumping. Yes, both have made tandems and both are now adults.

Third, I have watched my friends go in right in front of me, and no AAD would have prevented it. I have seen others where the AAD fired and still didn't prevent their death. They are not magic. I have stood at more than my fair share of funerals over the years, and hate being at every one, but I do not have the power nor the time machine to stop death. I have also seen cancer take many of my friends, drugs and alcohol too. No one here seems to rant about that.....

Lastly, I have been in the situation where I was convinced I was going in. I can tell you honestly I was at peace with my self and my choice to skydive that day, to take the risk. I choose my fate and knew the risk and I accepted it totally. So yes, I am okay with dying, but I will be pissed off if its because some asshat like you who thought he could fly a crotch rocket any way he wanted took me out on final.

If you are so hell bent on saving yourself and your friends, stop down sizing and doing hook turns! No pulls and low pulls are a shrinking percentage of the fatalities, and perfectly good canopies with imperfect pilots are killing more and more. (The stats don't even talk about how many more are injured beyond repair and don't jump again.)

AAD's are fine for those that choose them. And maybe as I do more belly flying I will invest in one, but not for now.

Oh..... Most people should invest more than "free" in a hook knife. They can save your life or all those in the plane, so maybe that plastic piece of shit that you got eight years ago and couldn't cut butter on a hot day should be replaced with a real knife that could save your ass. For thirty-five dollars.

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Jump more, post less!

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I don't jump an AAD. I'm not anti AAD. I don't have a problem with them but I do have a problem with people and their attitude towards AAD's. I get really sick of this idea that has grown up around them, that they are perfect and infallible and the solution to all fatalities. That because you jump an AAD you will be safe. It WILL save your life. And that if you do not jump an AAD you are not safe. You are reckless. You will surely some day die. because you do not have an AAD. I become frustrated with the lack of understanding as to what these things actually are and what they do. The gap between the perception and the reality has become very wide.

I remember I gear checked a guy once that had cut out a picture of a cypress from a magazine and slipped it into his pocket. I'm about fed up with this and ready to do the same thing.

Lee
Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

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RiggerLee


I remember I gear checked a guy once that had cut out a picture of a cypress from a magazine and slipped it into his pocket. I'm about fed up with this and ready to do the same thing.

Lee



Was this during AFFI rating course?
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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stayhigh

Do you have family to look after?

Kids?

Pets?

Are you financially struggling?

Secret death wish?

What factor made you jump out of airplane knowing that if you do not pull you will die 100%

Is skydiving more fun that way?

Ultimate rush comes only by taking the ultimate risk?




As I only recently joined AAD crew, I'm still answering.

No, I don't have family to look after.

No, I don't have kids.

Yes, I have a pet.

No, I'm not financially struggling.

No, I don't want to die while I'm young

What made me jump without an AAD? Well, for many years I had to choose between having an AAD but no longer having the money to jump, or to jump without an AAD.

It's neither more nor less fun. I turn it on and forget about it until the next day I'm at the DZ.



As for "am I ok with dying"? In a way, sure. But I'm not going to suck-start a shotgun to see what it's like.

I'll live my life in the way I feel I want to live it, and if someone doesn't like that, tough shit. My life is now, and will forever be, the most important life to me and to not do the things I want to do is to do myself the most horrible disservice.
cavete terrae.

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>I for one, think that skydiving without an AAD is the "REAL" skydiving.

Unless you've jumped from 26,000 feet from a C-130 without bailout oxygen, you're not a real skydiver.

(Anyone else? If we work at it we can probably define it such that no one here is a real skydiver.)

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billvon

>I for one, think that skydiving without an AAD is the "REAL" skydiving.

Unless you've jumped from 26,000 feet from a C-130 without bailout oxygen, you're not a real skydiver.

(Anyone else? If we work at it we can probably define it such that no one here is a real skydiver.)



Unless you've jumped from a commercial airliner at night with a bag of money, you're the slime on a whuffo's underwear.
cavete terrae.

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JWest

You made an entire post around the term "real" as I've already pointed out how historically manipulative and shitty it is?. Why don't you just call it 'more dangerous'? I use an AAD and guess what, I'm a skydiver. The random guy who did a tandem last weekend, he's a skydiver and his girlfriend is too. You are either a skydiver or you aren't. There is no levels of "realness". You probably use the terms "real men", "real women", "real american". I wouldn't be surprised if you are a sexist/bigot because using "real" is the primary word they use to put down and control people. This thread is a joke. You simply accept more risk than other people and in no way does it make you more of a skydiver than them.




Point of reference; there are those who have made a skydive; they are not skydivers and their safety is seen to by "skydivers."
There are those that actively skydive but do not put themselvse in the category of "skydivers."
Then there are those that are actively, regularly engaged in the sport, who are "skydivers."

A tandem student is not a "skydiver." A tandem skydive may not be made without an AAD.

I do happen to agree that there is no demarcation of "real" between one who chooses an AAD and one that does not. AADs are a choice and should remain a choice, just like RSL's.
That said, having witnessed and/or participated in the disposition of multiple bodies, yet I'm quite comfortable with the choices I've made, and fault no experienced "skydiver" for making choices that aren't the same as mine.

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RiggerLee

I don't jump an AAD. I'm not anti AAD. I don't have a problem with them but I do have a problem with people and their attitude towards AAD's. I get really sick of this idea that has grown up around them, that they are perfect and infallible and the solution to all fatalities. That because you jump an AAD you will be safe. It WILL save your life. And that if you do not jump an AAD you are not safe. You are reckless. You will surely some day die. because you do not have an AAD. I become frustrated with the lack of understanding as to what these things actually are and what they do. The gap between the perception and the reality has become very wide.

I remember I gear checked a guy once that had cut out a picture of a cypress from a magazine and slipped it into his pocket. I'm about fed up with this and ready to do the same thing.

Lee



I have one rig with and one without. When I jump with the AAD rig I don't give it a second thought once I activate it and check to see if it works. I don't jump with it thinking, "this rig is safer" or "this one will save me". I just jump. The only time I think about it is the next day when I turn it on again during my gear check. It's there--I use it--and that's it. Those who think that skydivers with AADs are somehow counting on it and can be casual about EPs because of it just aren't firing on all eight.

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We're all going to die. Might as well be OK with it. Most of us hope not to die skydiving, and it's up to us to do what we think is appropriate to prevent it.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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stayhigh

And those who say, "Oh, we do not like to pick up after your scattered remains."

that's complete BS.

I've seen no pulls.

No skydiver is out there picking shit up beside the county coroner guys who gets paid to do so. It is their job. They've seen plenty of death, and in fact these guys gets super amused by skydiving death.

There are three types of impact by the way. If you go in flat, your limbs go flying off, if you go in vertical, you turn into one fat mush, and if you carry some momentum and hit sideways(ie tracking) you might have somewhat of a recognizable body.



Wrong. And more wrong.

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Your approach about having no AAD leading to an eventual death is a bit morbid. A well known AAD maker have, for years, made his publicity by almost playing that game. I have jumped at a time when having an AAD was suspect for SF since "they could fire at any time". I have made about 1800 jumps without any AAD. An AAD is a back up device and only that. BTW there are rare occasions where AADs were the cause of death when firing at the wrong time. You should also know that there have been fatalities when an AAD fires normally but the reserve was a second or two too slow to deploy. Still now there is about 20% of the jumpers who jump without AAD.
Then I recommend you to switch on your AAD at the DZ before you jump and FORGET it. If by any chance your AAD date is expired or batteries are dead, you should be able to keep on jumping since your "main parachute will never know your AAD is no more operational" and will deploy anyway. [:/]
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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billvon

>I for one, think that skydiving without an AAD is the "REAL" skydiving.

Unless you've jumped from 26,000 feet from a C-130 without bailout oxygen, you're not a real skydiver.

(Anyone else? If we work at it we can probably define it such that no one here is a real skydiver.)



May I touch the hem of your garment?
Remster

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