riggerrob 558 #1 Posted June 20, 2015 How do you remove a plane wreck from a DZ? As many dz.commers know, I was injured during the forced landing of a King Air (jump plane) 7 years ago. Two years after the crash, the DZO moved the wreckage onto Pitt Meadows Airport, where I had to look at every time I drove through the gate. Students joked about "that is the plane they used last year" as they climbed aboard its sistership. The DZO is still baffled as to why I quit 2 years after the crash?????? Seven years after the crash, the wreckage is still laying near the gate to Pitt Meadows Airport. Every time I see the wreckage, I cringe. Seeing that wreckage - from the same angle I saw it out the ambulance door after I regained my senses - prolongs my traumatic stress disorder. The aircraft maintenance engineer who now owns the wreckage has a reputation for moving at this own pace. Since the crash, he has stripped the plane of engines, undercarriage, fuel system, radios, fin, seats, seat-belts, the left wing, etc. 99percent of the re-usable components are long gone. The first time he was asked to remove the wreckage, he replied that he would move it as soon as he salvaged the last circuit-breaker. The last time he was asked to remove the wreckage, he replied that he would remove it as soon as he had salvaged the rudder pedals. etc. etc. etc. Translation: he has no intention of moving the wreckage this year. I have contemplated un-bolting the rudder pedals and leaving them laying in the field while we sell the rest of the wreckage to the aluminum salvage yard.The new DZO wants to use the proceeds to buy a keg of beer and host a "survivors' party." However, as an AME the wreck owner has enough political clout to make life miserable for the DZ, so we cannot seriously consider stealing the wreckage, no matter how bad it is for morale of survivors. I have also (twice) suggested to the Pitt Meadows Fire Department that they haul the wreck away to use as a training aid. Initially Chief Chatton sounded keen, but stalled over who owned the wreck. Meanwhile, the wreckage is hosting wasps and rodents and ruining the morale of skydivers. Do any dz.commers know of a graceful way to rid the airport of this eyesore? Creative suggestions welcome ... Novel suggestions welcome ... Evil suggestions welcome ... Cruel suggestions welcome .... Humorous suggestions welcome .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #2 June 20, 2015 In the city in the U.S. where I live it would quite likely fall under our blight ordinance. Car's that are unlicensed or inoperable, even in a drive way, are illegal. Outdoor storage of old tires is not allowed. Outdoor storage of wreck autos and auto parts, allowed in very specific areas must be shielded from view. I expect here it would have to be indoor or behind an opaque fence. If the airport is within Pitt Meadows check out bylaw 1400 Property Maintenance, available on the city website. It prohibits an unlicensed motor vehicle and lots of other stuff. Unsightly material is prohibited. A complaint with the city may very well result in enforcement action. Most of this enforcement here is complaint based. Resources don't allow inspectors to cruse the City. Politics may get involved. Specific language and zoning may get involved. But it may be your best legal course of action. If I spotted it on google maps satellite it looks like it may be setting in a row of wrecks north of the taxi way/hangers near the skydive center. May be allowed under zoning or governance of airport versus Pitt Meadows. If that's not it and its somewhere more visible to the public it might work. But best idea I have. That whole line of junk looks like an eyesore to me. If I was on the airport board I wouldn't want my airport to look like that. Another avenue if not an illegal blight. Find someone, somewhere else that want's to buy it for climb out practice and have them make an offer. Minimizes it's mental effect by taking an ax to it and teaching it a lesson. I'd tell you to use something else but might kick response to Speaker's Corner. Probably not available to you anyway. Spill some avgas in it a screw up the aim on a bottle rocket? Have someone make an offer as scrap. Might be worth more to the mechanic that way. (Probably not) I don't recall if folks died. If so appeal to the airport board. Your distress over injuries might not be enough but reminders of dead people might. All I've got for the moment.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #3 June 20, 2015 Rent a dozer.... push up dirt around it.... hide it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,117 #4 June 20, 2015 Plant vines all over it. Get cans of spray paint and turn it into a giant bright sculpture. Make a party out of it. Or -- get lots of Saran wrap and turn it into a giant sculpture. Build a fence around it, and paint the owner's name on the fence. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #5 June 20, 2015 Setting it on fire comes to mind. You can solve most of life's problems by setting them on fire.I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #6 June 20, 2015 wmw999 Plant vines all over it. Get cans of spray paint and turn it into a giant bright sculpture. Make a party out of it. Or -- get lots of Saran wrap and turn it into a giant sculpture. Build a fence around it, and paint the owner's name on the fence. Wendy P. We have a blackberry problem up here in the NW..... and I am sure SW Canuckistan has the same damn vines trying to take over .... once the berm is up... plant blackberries.. at least the area will be good for something when the berries start getting ripe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anachronist 2 #7 June 21, 2015 TSB Report for those interested. Only two things that come to mind are trying to buy it as scrap and maybe covering it with tarps, not sure if that would help with the visual related to PTSD. It might help prevent critters from getting inside too depending on how well wrapped up it was. I would also think that being a haven for rodents and wasps might make it in violation of some kind of storage rules at the airport. I read the report, I'm glad no one was killed though it did mention 4 "serious injuries." I noticed it listed failure to use seatbelts as a contributing factor to the injuries. I'm not trying to place blame (we've all probably not worn a seatbelt more than a few times and at the altitude that the loss of power happened (3,900ft) everyone would have removed them anyway) but I would be interested in hearing from riggerrob about his take on that, as well as thoughts on getting out etc before the crash, and suggest all DZ operators consider re-evaluating their seatbelts for skydivers. From personal experience I know that in some aircraft I have been unable to use a seatbelt because it could not reach my chest strap (the only secure attachment while wearing a wingsuit). If you aren't up for discussing the incident riggerrob I completely understand, I take PTSD very seriously after having some friends suffer from it because of their experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #8 June 22, 2015 Have you tried talking to the guy about why you have a problem with where the plane sits? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nolhtairt 0 #9 June 22, 2015 Where exactly on the airport is the plane wreckage sitting? I've looked at google maps, including street views, and can't find anything. You say its sat there a long while, I'd think it would have shown up on google by now... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #10 June 22, 2015 Sounds like the DZO and the guy owning the title are jerk offs. If they want to tear it down, move it so it isn't an eye sore, and a cruel reminder to those involved in the crash."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LDiCosimo 0 #11 June 22, 2015 CSpenceFLYHave you tried talking to the guy about why you have a problem with where the plane sits? ^that If you don't own it or the land it sits on, you really don't have any options other that bugging him to do something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 June 22, 2015 Councilman, thanks for the suggestions about "blight" ordinances. As for planting blackberry bushes ... yes, we have them by the thousands in Southern British Columbia. They rapidly re-claim any land cleared by white men, but not plowed or mowed. They are already heavy with green berries. The amount of rain over the next month will determine how many million blackberries we can harvest this year. As for talking directly with the old DZO ... he is an arrogant %$#@! .... who cares little for other peoples' feelings or profits. As for talking to the Aircraft Maintenance Engineer who currently owns the wreckage ... he has told a variety of stories to current DZ staff. Translation: the current owner has no intention of moving the wreckage this year. He is also a self-centered fellow who cares little about anything beyond his own profit margin. Yesterday, I dodged wasps as I wrapped an old tent around the windshield of the wreck. It laid in the weeds along the western edge of apron 3, near the old fuel pumps. I saw several empty spray paint cans with my finger-prints on them. The forward fuselage is all twisted and distorted. The rudder pedals are corroded. At a minimum, those rudder pedals need dozens of man-hours to clean, inspect and re-paint before they can be installed in another King Air. As for seat-belts: FARS and CARS insist that all skydivers wear seat-belts .... however, Transport Canada has their own very narrow interpretation of what constitutes legal seat-belts. When TC phoned me back in October 2008 (2 months after the crash) I quizzed the TC investigator about Jack Hooker, the Twin Otter crash spring 1992, the Beech 18 crash in Hinkley, Labor Day 1992, etc. The TC investigator admitted complete ignorance of the bloody lessons learned by USPA back in 1992! I spent the next couple of hours filling gaps in his knowledge. Back in 2008, TC was 16 years behind the times. Do the math! Since then, TC has remained blissfully ignorant of American attitudes towards seat-belts for skydivers ... or maybe it is just the TC office in Abbotsford, B.C.???? TC has repeatedly given the former Pitt Meadows DZO grief over non-standard seat-belts. By non-standard, I mean any seat-belt not installed by Cessna or Beechcraft. Most stock seat-belts are too short to wrap around skydivers, furthermore, they are often poorly located to restrain skydivers during forced landings. For example, when a loose seat-belt sprained my ankle in May of 2008, I suggested to the old DZO that he install Hooker seat-belts. He angrily replied "They are not STCed!" Reading between the lines, I got the impression that the old DZO had also researched Hooker belts and had been refused by TC. The old DZO was so frustrated about seat-belts that he gave the impression that - if I ever asked him again - he would fire me! When I gave him a copy of the FAA's 1997 report on skydiver-compatible seat-belts, he tried to return it. I insisted: "This is your copy." Two years after the King Air crash, TC refused to allow him to import another King Air. TC's excuse was that it was missing the cocktail table mentioned in a Beechcraft factory parts list. Whether the cocktail table was installed was irrelevant because cocktail tables are a nuisance during skydiving operations. If TC had honestly said that the old DZO was not competent to fly a King Air, I would have agreed. However, TC's sneaky, bureaucratic methods for refusal are cowardly and stink of back-room politics. Some DZs are dangerous places for instructors and riggers who suggest compliance with CARS, FARS, USPA BSRs, service bulletins, best-business-practices, etc. As for attaching seat-belts to chest-straps: may I remind you that most chest strap buckles are only rated for 500 pounds, while most other parachute hardware is rated for a minimum of 2500 pounds. If lawyers get upset by today's post: GOOD! Most of what I have said I have said before during hearings for discovery. Bottom line: no-one cares a fig if they prolong the traumatic stress of the wounded, because they are too busy covering their legal asses with lame excuses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #13 June 22, 2015 Is there any salvage law that could be invoked? Even in a crap state, a unclaimed and obviously abandoned aircraft has got to be worth the effort to take it off and tear it down for parts or scrap.I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #14 June 23, 2015 FlyingRhenquestIs there any salvage law that could be invoked? Even in a crap state, a unclaimed and obviously abandoned aircraft has got to be worth the effort to take it off and tear it down for parts or scrap. From the description, it isn't unclaimed or abandoned. The guy who owns it doesn't want to move it at the moment. The hull is probably worth several hundred dollars for the scrap metal alone. If it were to "disappear" the cops would probably get involved."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
that_guy 0 #15 June 23, 2015 Have you asked what the wreck owner wants for the the remainder of the plane? Maybe you could put up a kickstarter or even just organize with DZ members to take donations. If you can make it worth the plane owners while monetarily maybe you can get him to cooperate. Then you just buy the wreck and do whatever you please with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #16 June 24, 2015 wolfriverjoe***Is there any salvage law that could be invoked? Even in a crap state, a unclaimed and obviously abandoned aircraft has got to be worth the effort to take it off and tear it down for parts or scrap. From the description, it isn't unclaimed or abandoned. The guy who owns it doesn't want to move it at the moment. The hull is probably worth several hundred dollars for the scrap metal alone. If it were to "disappear" the cops would probably get involved. If it's been sitting there rotting for this many years, it's debatable that it's not been abandoned. Question is, is it worth enough to encourage someone risk having that debate in a court of law.I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #17 June 24, 2015 If they ever ask me - in court - I will plead guilty to vandalism and theft, then give them a long-winded explanation of how it Prolonged my Traumatic Stress Disorder. If they still want to send poor wounded army veteran to jail after hearing that tale of woe .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #18 June 24, 2015 If it is a towered or very busy airport you might have to do something civil. But If you can get a truck to the wreck, just tie it on a 20' line and drag it to the other side of the airport. Airplanes are light, especially with the motor gone. Oh, and aluminum does burn. Bring a couple 5gal cans and have a party. -SPACE- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billindenver 0 #19 June 24, 2015 QuoteSawzall, coarse blade, recycle....beer money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nolhtairt 0 #20 June 24, 2015 billindenver Quote Sawzall, coarse blade, recycle....beer money. Just cut the plane down in pieces, a little at a time so it's not noticeable at first. Preferably from the inside out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 135 #21 June 24, 2015 get these guys on it : http://www.willitblend.com/scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites obelixtim 100 #22 June 25, 2015 Semtex.....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dpreguy 14 #23 June 25, 2015 Get over it and move on. This is America where you can own private property and do whatever you want with it. This guy doesn't have to be sensitive towards your needs, just because you want him to be. Maybe someone doesn't like your bumper sticker, or the color of your house or your college flag you fly on your house at football time, or something.. Are you going to change what you do to accommodate them? Maybe, but only if you want to. Someone's suggestion to explain how this affects you puts you in a begging position, and that is how it is. If you go that route and he still wants to leave it there - well that's that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dpreguy 14 #24 June 25, 2015 OK, saw the maple leaf flag, so you are in Canada. Seems like the same to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stayhigh 2 #25 June 25, 2015 FlyingRhenquestSetting it on fire comes to mind. You can solve most of life's problems by setting them on fire. I'm with this guy, burn it. Have moderator erase this whole entire post before you do it.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 1 1
nolhtairt 0 #20 June 24, 2015 billindenver Quote Sawzall, coarse blade, recycle....beer money. Just cut the plane down in pieces, a little at a time so it's not noticeable at first. Preferably from the inside out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #21 June 24, 2015 get these guys on it : http://www.willitblend.com/scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #22 June 25, 2015 Semtex.....My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #23 June 25, 2015 Get over it and move on. This is America where you can own private property and do whatever you want with it. This guy doesn't have to be sensitive towards your needs, just because you want him to be. Maybe someone doesn't like your bumper sticker, or the color of your house or your college flag you fly on your house at football time, or something.. Are you going to change what you do to accommodate them? Maybe, but only if you want to. Someone's suggestion to explain how this affects you puts you in a begging position, and that is how it is. If you go that route and he still wants to leave it there - well that's that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #24 June 25, 2015 OK, saw the maple leaf flag, so you are in Canada. Seems like the same to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #25 June 25, 2015 FlyingRhenquestSetting it on fire comes to mind. You can solve most of life's problems by setting them on fire. I'm with this guy, burn it. Have moderator erase this whole entire post before you do it.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
