Questions on a spinning mal

[pkasdorf 0]

First let me describe the malfunction, statistics say that there is one emergency every 500 jumps... well, mine was in jump 499!

I jump a Tri 160 in a Wings container with a MRaven 150 as reserve with Cypres and RSL. My wingloading is 1,4.

Uneventful freefall with good relative work in a 7 way. Track, stabilize, pull in a very stable position at 3000 feet. Canopy deploys with many, many linetwists. I watch that it is deployed but it starts spinning. A couple of seconds to make sure that it looks not easy to untwist, spins turn faster, cut, reserve, beautiful white canopy, 2000 feet, uneventful landing.

Now here come my doubts. Another skydiver who watched my emergency from above assured me that there was no lineover. My Tri 160 is very stable, it has opened twisted before but never entered in a spin. My rigger asked me if I had unstowed the brakes because he found them unstowed. I did not. When untwisting a canopy I never unstow them before finishing the procedure.

So both brakes were unstowed.

1) Were they not stowed when packing? I stow them in the field and hand my parachute to my rigger. So
a) I did not stow them and the rigger didn't notice
b) I stowed them somehow loose and they unstowed while putting the bag in the harness.

2) If both brakes were unstowed, why did I have an emergency? An experienced skydiver told me that the slider could have got stuck on one side and that put me in a spin.

3) That both brakes get unstowed at the same time during opening seems impossible, right?

I'll probably never be sure of what happened but I would like some input of the experienced Dropzoners...

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[Amazon 7]

I jumped a Tri that used to get line twists once in a while... It never went into a spin and I always managed to kick out of them.

If a canopy enters a spin... even a big docile Triathalon you start losing altitude quickly.
I could bury a toggle on mine to the point that it would make the leg straps HURT.... but that was a canopy that was open and I was playing with up high.

In this instance... you made a decision and you are here to post about it with no ill effects.

Had you tried to kick out of the twists.... in a spin.. how fast do you think you would have eaten up that 2000 ft below you rahter than sitting under that nice big white reserve. Its VERY easy to lose alti awareness under a spinnner...My decision twice now when I have had my canopy go to a spin.. for hung slider.. and line twists....... is C-YA... I like the looks of my reserve a whole lot better than a spinning POS that is eating up altitude.

[jsaxton 0]

loose it and use it

[GravityGirl 0]

Does your rigger pack your main parachute? Or is a packer? It's pretty rare that both toggles come unstowed on deployment.

Have you checked the brake stows to make sure that they are secure?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[pkasdorf 0]

Quote

1) Does your rigger pack your main parachute? Or is a packer? It's pretty rare that both toggles come unstowed on deployment.

2) Have you checked the brake stows to make sure that they are secure?

1) In this case it was my rigger. And yes, it is indeed rare...¿?

2) The brake stows are secure

HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757

[leesamsiel 0]

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.....I'll probably never be sure of what happened but I would like some input of the experienced Dropzoners...

I have jumped several size Tri's over the past 6 years. Once my 135 opened (~2,700' altitude) and immediately went into a radical spin. I had no idea why this was happening because there were no line twists and both brake lines were properly stowed. The canopy actually seemed to have opened in a dive attitude rather than directly over head. I believe this response was caused by an end cell closure on one side of the canopy, but I didn't see it myself....another jumper told me he saw the whole thing and thought there was end cell closure.

Apparently once a Tri goes into a "spontaneous" spin, I don't think it will recover without control input from the canopy pilot. I released both toggles and turned in the direction opposite the spin, and the canopy recovered and flew fine the rest of that jump and hundreds more.

I had plenty of altitude to play with it and still could have performed EP's above 2,000' --- if necessary. Needless to say it's a disconcerting feeling when your canopy opens in a spin without apparent reason...I am sure it would be much worse if you had a bunch of line twists. Not only are you losing altitude rapidly, but the more turns your canopy does, the more disoriented you will become.

I believe you did the right thing by going directly to EP's rather than trying to kick out of the line twists, which could have taken quite some time.

LS

[billvon 2,379]

>Apparently once a Tri goes into a "spontaneous" spin, I don't think
>it will recover without control input from the canopy pilot.

While I have noted that behavior with the Diablo (another former Aerodyne product) I have _not_ noted that behavior with Tri's. They are unusually stable canopies, and are the sort of canopy you want to have if you have an odd body position on opening or a brake fire or something. (I've put perhaps 300 jumps on Triathalons from 135 to 190 sq ft.)

[sd-slider 0]

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I jumped a Tri that used to get line twists once in a while... It never went into a spin and I always managed to kick out of them.

Sounds familiar

I'm only loaded @ 1.1 but she has twisted but good a couple times and just sits there and waits for me to unwind'er.....FOR NOW!

Good heads-up!

Anvil Brother #69

Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk...
Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix!

[Martini 0]

I love to hear about kicking out of line twists on a spinner. Good fucking luck, I hope you pulled real high. Kicking out of stable line twists is kind of like cereal for breakfast. Except sometimes you get to chop those too. Losing altitude awareness on a spinner has killed people, be careful boys and girls. BTW a wise and experienced friend gave me a wry piece of advice after a chopper last year: pulling low causes malfunctions.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[Amazon 7]

No way I am going to try to kick out of line twists when the horizon get vertical...... my last chop at LP... great video.. massive line twists... and about that time the video goes from the horizon being horizontal.. to the horizon being vertical.. and I think the sound effect I made was OH SHIT..... as I chopped

[Amazon 7]

I never knew why it did that... it only did it a couple times... but oh well.. I mean I had good body position... but for some reason there it was... 3 twists or so...and as long as you are pulling about 3500 where I usually pulled at.. no problemo.. I kiced out of them fairly quickly... BUT if whe ever does go into a spin...... get a look at the nice Big Raven in the top portion of the rig......she flies good too


Now my Samurai.. if I have line twists on it... it got spinning in a BIG hurry...It goes bye bye real easy and I get to look at my new r-Max 170 with 2 jumps on it....yup two spinners on the Sam so far.

[bob.dino 0]

Out of curiosity, what size is the Sam and how many jumps do you have on it?

[Martini 0]

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I think the sound effect I made was OH SHIT..... as I chopped

I've made that sound too. Now it's "fuck, not again!"

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[Amazon 7]

ITs only the 2nd 190 made by Brian ( Signature Series) and I guess I have 250 jumps on it now...

[bob.dino 0]

I'd have a look into that - mine has only spun up once when I had really lousy body position. I'm loading mine at 1.2. Things may be different if you're loading it significantly higher.

Is your pilot chute correctly made and in good nick? Orbiting/spinning pilot chutes may contribute to line twists. How much loose line are you leaving between the risers & last stow?

I'm probably telling you a bunch of stuff you already know, but I figured it couldn't hurt to put the questions out there...