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Phil1111

Defense Spending

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President Biden has proposed a 2023 defense budget of $813.3 billion. Up 4% or $31 billion from 2022. Russia's budget for 2022 is about $70 billion (USD). With the current embargo's that are underway that goal may not be achievable.

Certainly the US and other NATO allies will have to replace MANPADS and anti-tank weapons given to Ukraine. But many of those systems are 25 years old already.

Germany, Poland and some other NATO countries have already announced substantial increases in defense spending. Canada, as expected, nothing. Germany has promised to spend $112.7 billion USD in 2022. As a result of the Russian invasion.

Given the performance of Russian equipment, personnel and military leadership. Is any increase warranted? The US increase alone is 44% of the entire Russian annual budget. Germany's budget is 1.6 times Russia's.

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Wasn't there another thread on here about not declaring war on some country before actually being able to immediately commit resources to that effort? There is nothing new here. This is just the preparation work before we invade Russia to shut the naysayers up.

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11 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

 " ... the US and other NATO allies will have to replace MANPADS and anti-tank weapons given to Ukraine. But many of those systems are 25 years old already. ... "

If you consider that most of those missiles had shelf-lives of 20 or 25 years, they cost NATO $0.00

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14 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

If you consider that most of those missiles had shelf-lives of 20 or 25 years, they cost NATO $0.00

If you consider that instead of rusting away. Perhaps 10% of them will end up into the side of a Russian armored vehicle. Perhaps NATO should be paying Ukraine a commission for each successful deployment.

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4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Given the performance of Russian equipment, personnel and military leadership.

It’s just posturing. Nato isn’t holding back from Ukraine because we’re not strong enough (it looks like Russia’s invasion force would be completely helpless against NATO forces tbh) but because Putin has played the ‘just crazy enough to maybe use nukes’ card very well. Is there any amount of defence spending that would overcome that?

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7 minutes ago, jakee said:

It’s just posturing. Nato isn’t holding back from Ukraine because we’re not strong enough (it looks like Russia’s invasion force would be completely helpless against NATO forces tbh) but because Putin has played the ‘just crazy enough to maybe use nukes’ card very well. Is there any amount of defence spending that would overcome that?

Agree, posturing. Its like gun owners in the US. Every time they feel threatened. That democrats get elected. They buy more guns. Even though you can only shoot one at a time(Hollywood movies excepted of course).

...Did I say gun owners! I meant republicans.

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54 minutes ago, jakee said:

Is there any amount of defence spending that would overcome that?

I don't think so. It is quite the conundrum. It sure points the way for other nations as well. If you have nukes no one will dare touch you as long as you don't use them. And if you use them there is no telling where it will lead. Maybe to a new more level playing field as the world rebuilds from scratch

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6 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

President Biden has proposed a 2023 defense budget of $813.3 billion. Up 4% or $31 billion from 2022. Russia's budget for 2022 is about $70 billion (USD). With the current embargo's that are underway that goal may not be achievable.

Certainly the US and other NATO allies will have to replace MANPADS and anti-tank weapons given to Ukraine. But many of those systems are 25 years old already.

Germany, Poland and some other NATO countries have already announced substantial increases in defense spending. Canada, as expected, nothing. Germany has promised to spend $112.7 billion USD in 2022. As a result of the Russian invasion.

Given the performance of Russian equipment, personnel and military leadership. Is any increase warranted? The US increase alone is 44% of the entire Russian annual budget. Germany's budget is 1.6 times Russia's.

Yep, but we can hardly ask our allies to up their spending to the ignored but previously agreed 2% of GDP if we don't bump ours up to 4.5%. We're getting off cheap.

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21 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Yep, but we can hardly ask our allies to up their spending to the ignored but previously agreed 2% of GDP if we don't bump ours up to 4.5%. We're getting off cheap.

The BEST part of the bargain is what you people spend on keeping your nukes all fresh and glowing hot. That forces the Russians to do the same to keep up and there is no way they can afford it. So the rest of their forces make do eating dirt.

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1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

The BEST part of the bargain is what you people spend on keeping your nukes all fresh and glowing hot. That forces the Russians to do the same to keep up and there is no way they can afford it. So the rest of their forces make do eating dirt.

You are very welcome. In fact, I find your appreciation and gratitude worth far more than Canada's 1.4% of GDP defense spending. I'll include a note to that effect when I send my check to the IRS this year.

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2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I'll include a note to that effect when I send my check to the IRS this year.

I can assure you that I pay a higher rate than you do. But there are certain perks included in the deal. Trudeau has announced an increase in spending. Up from playground level all the way to streetgang. Gonna buy some of them Boeings I hear.

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Just now, gowlerk said:

I can assure you that I pay a higher rate than you do. But there are certain perks included in the deal. Trudeau has announced an increase in spending. Up from playground level all the way to streetgang. Gonna buy some of them Boeings I hear.

That's some weak shit, brother. Instead you might have simply conceded that Canada spends a smaller portion of GDP on the defense of Democracy than Albania.

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Just now, JoeWeber said:

That's some weak shit, brother. Instead you might have simply conceded that Canada spends a smaller portion of GDP on the defense of Democracy than Albania.

That is more or less what I was implying. Have you sent that tax payment yet?

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Just now, gowlerk said:

That is more or less what I was implying. Have you sent that tax payment yet?

Not yet. Your reply was elliptical but I accept your intention was to agree more of less. One thing you might consider is that the American taxpayer, all of whom are Americans, have been guaranteeing your freedoms for quite some time. Now, at least for me, I'd be appreciative if Canada doubled their defense spending for awhile even at the expense of some of those "perks". Then maybe we could have some perks. That would be nice.

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(edited)
5 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Now, at least for me, I'd be appreciative if Canada doubled their defense spending for awhile even at the expense of some of those "perks". Then maybe we could have some perks.

It's actually up to you guys to decide that you want perks bad enough to vote for them. We didn't actually ask you to throw so much of your money at defense contractors. But at least you can say "mission accomplished" once in a while. I'll see about asking Justin to help out the next time he drops in for coffee. You have much nicer highways than us. I enjoy them a lot. I guess that's kind of a perk. 

Edited by gowlerk

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27 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It's actually up to you guys to decide that you want perks bad enough to vote for them. We didn't actually ask you to throw so much of your money at defense contractors. But at least you can say "mission accomplished" once in a while. I'll see about asking Justin to help out the next time he drops in for coffee. You have much nicer highways than us. I enjoy them a lot. I guess that's kind of a perk. 

We very well might have a desire to spend a few hundred billion on things you consider basic human rights if we were only spending  $500 Billion a year because our allies were spending a lot more than spending the de minimus amount they've enjoyed thus far.

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9 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

We very well might have a desire to spend a few hundred billion on things you consider basic human rights if we were only spending  $500 Billion a year because our allies were spending a lot more than spending the de minimus amount they've enjoyed thus far.

You are just lucky to have us between you and Russia acting as a missile cushion.

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2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

You are just lucky to have us between you and Russia acting as a missile cushion.

Exactly!  As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Canada. It's just right over the border. It is from Canada that they send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right next to, they are right next to, you know, us.

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

I can assure you that I pay a higher rate than you do. But there are certain perks included in the deal. Trudeau has announced an increase in spending. Up from playground level all the way to streetgang. Gonna buy some of them Boeings I hear.

There is no possibility that Canada is actually going to increase military spending. The new NDP/Liberal coalition agreement. Has a new dental program and new national prescription drug plan. As a central part of that agreement. That will balloon the huge deficit that Canada has now. The costs of the national $10 a day child care program is not fully budgeted. Then there is the twice delayed "assault" gun buyback program. 

They probably still haven't paid for the old used RAAF F-18's That Canada bought from Australia. After they exceeded their original design life.

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2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

We very well might have a desire to spend a few hundred billion on things you consider basic human rights if we were only spending  $500 Billion a year because our allies were spending a lot more than spending the de minimus amount they've enjoyed thus far.

Thats ok. Canadians will have nice teeth and fully socialized children Our mentally ill will be fully medicated and if they skip their meds. Then go full postal. There will be no AR-15's to use. Because the government has bought them all up.

Our Air Farce will be all green with minimal fuel usage. Because they are all sitting on the ground due to mechanical issues.

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(edited)
9 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Thats ok. Canadians will have nice teeth and fully socialized children Our mentally ill will be fully medicated and if they skip their meds. Then go full postal. There will be no AR-15's to use. Because the government has bought them all up.

Our Air Farce will be all green with minimal fuel usage. Because they are all sitting on the ground due to mechanical issues.

Make love, not war! Now I know how Keith feels when everyone is trying to make him feel guilty and embarrassed about his country!!!!!  (Exclamation marks are for you know who!)

Edited by gowlerk

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43 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Make love, not war! Now I know how Keith feels when everyone is trying to make him feel guilty and embarrassed about his country!!!!!  (Exclamation marks are for you know who!)

I was reading an article about the poor state of affairs of the Bundeswehr. Old equipment, etc. Then didn't feel so bad about the dismal state of affairs of the Canadian armed forces.

But nothing can compare with the Russian forces. Ukrainians are finding food items that expired 20 years ago. Shortages of bandages, no batteries for the radios, no fuel, etc. They were sent off with no tents, no winter sleeping bags or winter clothing. They are sleeping in the cabs of their running vehicles to keep warm. Many are suffering from frostbite. Because they don't have warm clothes they are less inclined to keep an armed perimeter at night. Which Ukrainians are exploiting.

Personally the CAF are a bit of an embarrassment. The CF-18 replacement procurement tendering is a joke. But Canadians want social programs and I'm also ok with that. One point eight percent might be ideal and salable to Canadians. Because as you know love trumps war.

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(edited)
12 hours ago, billvon said:

Exactly!  As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Canada. It's just right over the border. It is from Canada that they send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right next to, they are right next to, you know, us.

Poor Ken, coming up on 1100 Luv U's only to be fairly compared to Sarah Palin. I do think it would be reasonable if the clan to our north withheld any comments about our social system or military except when beginning the sentence with: Okay, I get it, we suck and aren't truly doing our part but...........

Edited by JoeWeber

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(edited)
16 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Okay, I get it, we suck and aren't truly doing our part but...........

Once you get over your national fascination with chest thumping and loud bleating perhaps you will change your spending priorities to be more in line with the rest of the civilized world. In the meantime I would advise you not to hold your breath waiting for us to follow you down the path of letting weapons manufacturers buy your government. And we will try our best not to openly laugh in your faces for your folly.

Edited by gowlerk
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