AAD use - let's hear it!

[stayhigh 2]

grimmie

***There is also the fact that the next mass recall of some famous brand AAD could be just around the corner for all we know. If it happens, mandatory mass groundings are a possibility. It already is a possibility in the tandem world.

Add to that the fact that there is currently no US maker of these devices. Do my patriotic American friends really want to totally rely on German, Czeck, and Belgium companies?

I like BMWs, Czech supermodels and cold Stella.

+1

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[PiLFy 0]

grimmie

Respect is a two-way street. A number of other pro-AAD posters have respectfully stated their opinions. Grimmie's posts come to mind, here. I've no problem w/that, & would be happy to sit back at the end of the jump day discussing it w/him. However, I won't be repeatedly attacked & insulted by others without responding.


^^^any time, over a cold beer, I'll buy^^^

Deal

[pchapman 261]

stayhigh

What is this recall you speak of?

Are you just pulling sht out of your ass

To address your comment to Gowler, one local DZO was worried sufficiently to switch to half Cypres, half Vigil for his tandem rigs in case of a recall or grounding.

After all, he had a number of Vigils have that problem with freezing on bootup (before a certain version), he had Cypres' that had to be given an extra button push to confirm they hadn't locked up, and there was that bulletin on a before-the-next-jump inspection of Vigil cutters because of one missing blade. So yeah you never know what might happen with AAD bulletins, even if we feel that the major players have pretty decent production control going.

[Southern_Man 0]

stayhigh

Cypress has proven to work within the parameter, and has been prove to save lives for almost 20+ years without a hitch.

Do you really believe that?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[normiss 622]

"without a hitch"

I would disagree.

[gowlerk 1,903]

normiss

"without a hitch"

I would disagree.

Stayhigh is a frequent user of sarcasm. Being a sarcastic cynical person myself I recognize it quicker.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[lyosha 46]

grimmie

I like BMWs, Czech supermodels and cold Stella.

Amen.

[normiss 622]

[billvon 2,391]

>Do try to pay attention. A number of people have already posted that their complete
>rigs cost them less than a single AAD.

My first rig cost me $250. A broken foot and a screwed up knee later I realized that was a bad decision. My next rig had a Cypres, which cost about a third of the price of the rig.

I often hope that others can avoid making the same mistakes I made.

[billvon 2,391]

>I like one of my buddy's theory, you need one or the other. AAD or RSL.

Terrible theory. They are in no way replacements for each other. I recall one year at the WFFC we had two people go in due to cutaways with no reserve pulls. They both had AADs and neither had an RSL. They both died.

An RSL helps ensure a reserve after a cutaway, but doesn't help you if you never pull. An AAD helps you if you never pull, but won't do much if you get too low screwing around with a mal before you cut away.

[stayhigh 2]

gowlerk

***"without a hitch"

I would disagree.

Stayhigh is a frequent user of sarcasm. Being a sarcastic cynical person myself I recognize it quicker.

i was being quite serious. educate me on this topic. i wanna know how many died or injured by having a Cypress on their back.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[craigbey 0]

lyosha

***

Quote

If you are really looking at the cost/benefit ratio of safety in our sport, better canopy flight education is the best deal. An AAD might be used in a very small set of circumstances over a period of skydiving for one person, but better canopy skills will be benefit everyone on every jump.

Before you make AAD's mandatory, make canopy piloting courses mandatory at each license level.

+1

they already are, no?

Unfortunately, no.

[grimmie 173]

stayhigh

******"without a hitch"

I would disagree.

Stayhigh is a frequent user of sarcasm. Being a sarcastic cynical person myself I recognize it quicker.

i was being quite serious. educate me on this topic. i wanna know how many died or injured by having a Cypress on their back.

There have been a few incidents where the AAD activated at proper altitudes and cut the reserve loop, however a reserve parachute did not either fully inflate before impact, or even exit the container. There was also one well documented AAD not properly installed on a student rig. I am not sure about the types of AAD involved in each situation.

[gowlerk 1,903]

stayhigh

******"without a hitch"

I would disagree.

Stayhigh is a frequent user of sarcasm. Being a sarcastic cynical person myself I recognize it quicker.

i was being quite serious. educate me on this topic. i wanna know how many died or injured by having a Cypress on their back.

I apologize then. Usually when you are hiding your identity as stayhigh you are very sarcastic. I won't make the mistake of responding to you again. I don't often reply to people who won't identify, but I will admit to growing somewhat fond of your dry humour.

Since I did respond I will clarify. You stated "without a hitch" and we all know that the AAD makers have all had technical problems that could be called "hitches". That's why I assumed you were being sarcastic. Now you are asking me about injuries and deaths caused by these products. I have never made any claims of anything of the sort. I don't know where you got that from. I stated that a recall could be around the corner. They have happened before.

I'm sure you also post under another real identity. I think you could be mixing up the personas you use. In order that I not misunderstand you again I will no longer reply to or refer to "stayhigh". But I'm sure I will continue to get an occasional chuckle from reading your nonsense.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[PiLFy 0]

billvon

>Do try to pay attention. A number of people have already posted that their complete
>rigs cost them less than a single AAD.

My first rig cost me $250. A broken foot and a screwed up knee later I realized that was a bad decision. My next rig had a Cypres, which cost about a third of the price of the rig.

I often hope that others can avoid making the same mistakes I made.

Older gear can be perfectly airworthy.

[PiLFy 0]

Quote

"There have been a few incidents where the AAD activated at proper altitudes and cut the reserve loop, however a reserve parachute did not either fully inflate before impact, or even exit the container. There was also one well documented AAD not properly installed on a student rig. I am not sure about the types of AAD involved in each situation."

Those sound like problems w/opening altitudes being too low, over-stuffed or poorly designed containers, & a rigging error. They don't sound like AAD malfunctions.

[DSE 3]

There are also situations where an AAD has misfired and killed people.
They are not faultless. Thinking so is a mistake.

[grimmie 173]

PiLFy

Quote

"There have been a few incidents where the AAD activated at proper altitudes and cut the reserve loop, however a reserve parachute did not either fully inflate before impact, or even exit the container. There was also one well documented AAD not properly installed on a student rig. I am not sure about the types of AAD involved in each situation."

Those sound like problems w/opening altitudes being too low, over-stuffed or poorly designed containers, & a rigging error. They don't sound like AAD malfunctions.

The AADs were not a part of the "hitch". I was just trying to point out that there is no guarantee of a functioning reserve over your head with one. But I'll still take my chances with one.

[keithbar 1]

*** so let me get this straight you think if your rig is leaning against the wall of the hangar and boom the cypress goes off you should have to sit down for a month. if you put your rig in the trunk of a car and slammed the car trunk lid and the aad goes off you should have to sit down for a month. I say this as someone who has had an aad fire and other than having it in the rig and turning in the damn thing on I did nothing to cause it

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[PiLFy 0]

DSE

There are also situations where an AAD has misfired and killed people.
They are not faultless. Thinking so is a mistake.

Oh, I know that, thank you. It's one of the reasons I don't jump w/one.

[PiLFy 0]

Quote

"I was just trying to point out that there is no guarantee of a functioning reserve over your head with one. But I'll still take my chances with one."

Cold Stella beer, right ? To be continued...

[NWFlyer 2]

PiLFy

***There are also situations where an AAD has misfired and killed people.
They are not faultless. Thinking so is a mistake.

Oh, I know that, thank you. It's one of the reasons I don't jump w/one.

What are the others? From what I can glean reading your posts, you've contributed your opinion on cost calculations (a fair criticism of the numbers people are throwing out, but not a reason for not choosing an AAD per se). You've critiqued Chuck's quoting ability. You've critiqued the language others have used. But this is the first post in which you've actually begun to explain why you have chosen not to use one.

So please, share. Recall, if you will, that was the original question, not "does Chuck know how to use the quote feature?" or "do people really understand compound interest?" I'll quote it for reference.

chuckakers

So do you use an AAD? Why? Do you believe they should be mandatory? Why or why not? Do you not use one? Why not?

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[billvon 2,391]

>Older gear can be perfectly airworthy.

Of course. In my case (and in a great many cases) it is not. Even a reserve that has never been jumped is going to show wear after 40 repacks, and not flare as well as a new reserve. (Which wasn't such a big issue when it was new during a time when reserves were regularly loaded at 1.2 to 1 or lower.) Even a perfect 1990 Racer is going to have lousy riser protection. Often such "bargains" are not worth it in the long run. Some people (like me) had to re-learn that lesson. A lot of new jumpers will have to learn it the hard way as well; that's life. Some may skip the painful part of that lesson and learn that from other's experience instead - which is the point of threads like this.

[PiLFy 0]

billvon

>Older gear can be perfectly airworthy.

Of course. In my case (and in a great many cases) it is not. Even a reserve that has never been jumped is going to show wear after 40 repacks, and not flare as well as a new reserve. (Which wasn't such a big issue when it was new during a time when reserves were regularly loaded at 1.2 to 1 or lower.) Even a perfect 1990 Racer is going to have lousy riser protection. Often such "bargains" are not worth it in the long run. Some people (like me) had to re-learn that lesson. A lot of new jumpers will have to learn it the hard way as well; that's life. Some may skip the painful part of that lesson and learn that from other's experience instead - which is the point of threads like this.

I think there's a whole lot of gear snobs in this sport. One doesn't need the latest, greatest, bling_bling equipment to jump safely. There's a lot of people dealing w/a lot of bills, less good fortune, & a shitty economy.

You trust your rigger, or you don't. Any questions on something, & it goes to the manufacturer for inspection. It's perfectly do-able. On the bright side, gear snobbery helps keep those used prices even lower for those that need it.

[billvon 2,391]

>I think there's a whole lot of gear snobs in this sport.

There certainly are. And there are people jumping unsafe crap because "that's what I am used to" and "there's nothing wrong with old gear!" and "I can't afford new gear until I hear about this year's schedule." Most of the time they survive their bad judgment, as I did. Sometimes they don't.

>You trust your rigger, or you don't.

Yep - and that goes both ways. "You should think about replacing your main risers." "Well, but that's not part of the reserve or container that you're inspecting, right? I'll just take the main off." "Uh - OK. Your call."

You don't need something brand new to be safe. But you do need to regularly maintain your gear, and that means replacing parts when they wear out, and replacing entire components (like the container) when it's time.