Enemy at the gates

[JoeWeber 2,298]

3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

It's not 2 grand a day for joining their legion. It's a normal military base pay. They have requirements. If you're not prior service (and have documentation) or law enforcement then they really don't want you and are communicating that. I understand this violates your core, but there are people that believe in helping to stop what Russia is doing.   

That's not true for me  and wrong. 1. Mercenary fighters are, from what I've read, being offered $2000 a day. Show that's wrong and I concede. Wrong is that I do not give a shit. You wanted full on engagement with Russia two weeks ago. Both of our calls may yet turn out wrong. I like my chances, still. But if you think my core is to ignore all the harm that the Ukrainians are suffering you have missed my intention. I think my way of thinking will cause less harm. I hope I am right.

[Phil1111 910]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

That's not true for me  and wrong. 1. Mercenary fighters are, from what I've read, being offered $2000 a day. Show that's wrong and I concede. Wrong is that I do not give a shit. You wanted full on engagement with Russia two weeks ago. Both of our calls may yet turn out wrong. I like my chances, still. But if you think my core is to ignore all the harm that the Ukrainians are suffering you have missed my intention. I think my way of thinking will cause less harm. I hope I am right.

You're both right. Everyone, with a conscious  is disgusted by whats happening and mad as hell. It gets worse and worse. This is a forum for politics and most people don't like the dirty corners of what politics does. Now Putin's politics has morphed into naked aggression. The outright murder of babies, old men, pregnant women and young men.

Its right to think that sending your young citizens is a last resort. Even the fresh memories of Afghanistan need not enter the equation. But bullies like Putin only respect a bigger dog. He is afraid of the dog called NATO and the EU. Thats why he played the nuclear bluff. BIGUN is right that bullies need to see the rifling of a .45 1911 before they really open their eyes.

[BIGUN 1,053]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

That's not true for me  and wrong. 1. Mercenary fighters are, from what I've read, being offered $2000 a day. Show that's wrong and I concede.

We

I'm not talking about PMC's. The International Volunteer Legion pays the same as the Ukraine Military. I do not approve of PMC's

"Even as Westerns volunteers are joining the fight in Ukraine, for which they can expect to be paid the same as their Ukrainian counterparts, money is being offered by private interests for security services like the one advertised on Silent Professionals." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60669763

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

You wanted full on engagement with Russia two weeks ago. Both of our calls may yet turn out wrong.

I still do. But, I also recognize we report to a civilian government. 

 

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

But if you think my core is to ignore all the harm that the Ukrainians are suffering you have missed my intention.

I NEVER said or implied that. 

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I think my way of thinking will cause less harm. I hope I am right.

I would like to think that also, but having stared communism in the face; think that's a short-term philosophy. The Russians bombed a maternity ward today. Seventeen civilians dead. 

[jakee 1,254]

12 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

It's a philosophical position. The Russians hire the Wagner Group, the Ukrainians hire others.

I don’t think the Russians really ‘hire’ the Wagner group. It’s more like a pretend PMC which is actually an extension of Russian special forces which they can use when they really want some deniability.

[jakee 1,254]

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Edited March 10, 2022 by jakee

[jakee 1,254]

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Edited March 10, 2022 by jakee

[Phil1111 910]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

I don’t think the Russians really ‘hire’ the Wagner group. It’s more like a pretend PMC which is actually an extension of Russian special forces which they can use when they really want some deniability.

Mostly right. The Wagner group will go and do what the Russian state will not. Or wants to hide, conceal its endorsement of. Mercenaries in the true sense of the word. Mercenaries without qualms, or morals.

"The group is believed to be funded by Yevgeny Prigozhin, a businessman with close links to Vladimir Putin who is also alleged to run Russia's "troll farm", the Internet Research Agency.

Mr Prigozhin is one of the many oligarchs recently sanctioned by the West in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The European Union said Wagner was founded by Dmitry Utkin - a former Russian soldier reportedly adorned with Nazi tattoos.

It is said to have been named after Richard Wagner, Hitler's favourite composer"

Dogtags and patches belonging to the group have been recovered by Ukrainian forces in the last week.

Putin and Russia have denied any relationship with the Wagner group. "Because mercenaries are illegal in Russia" And as everyone knows Russia is a law abiding country.

[Phil1111 910]

A cascading effect of western sanctions is the withdrawal of business and services by many Chinese countries. Its not been widely reported. Probably because of all the other news. Chinese companies are closing operations in Russia as well.

Mostly because of sanctions and banking controls. Have precluded money transfers and the total disruption of supply chains.

Putin has retaliated by introducing discussions in the Duma to "nationalize" the assets of companies that abandon Russia. But this could all be bluster. Cutting off the hand that feeds you is a bit counter-intuitive.

Which reminds me of "Three men who died recently are brought before the throne of God and told that they may each have one wish.

The Briton asks for an end to war.

The American asks for an end to hunger.

The Russian smiles slyly and says, “In my village, I have a neighbor who has a cow. I do not have a cow. I wish that my neighbor’s cow shall sicken and die.”

and finally You have two cows. You drink some vodka and count them again. You have five cows. The Russian mafia shows up and takes however many cows you have.

[Phil1111 910]

Understanding the enemy and yourself are the most important concepts in war according to Sun Tsu. Here is an excellent article in the NYT about Putin's current psychology and his current advisors.

It dispels the ideas that oligarchs will influence him and that he either answers to them, the military, the KGB, or the population.

[brenthutch 383]

On 3/10/2022 at 3:57 AM, jakee said:

I don’t think the Russians really ‘hire’ the Wagner group. It’s more like a pretend PMC which is actually an extension of Russian special forces which they can use when they really want some deniability.

A Russian foreign legion if you will.

[billeisele 122]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:39 PM, JoeWeber said:

Interesting that you think it was mercenaries, not Ukrainian forces, that killed the officers with what must have been American made .50 Caliber sniper rifles. I'm guessing you haven't heard of Simo Häyhä. No matter. I will say that I think it is a seriously wrong practice to refer to hired killers, aka Mercenaries, and "mercs" in the same way grandma say's bowel movements are #2's. Be they of the Wagner Group (sounds like accountants, right?) or Blackwater (the port-a-pottie people?) they are hired killers without a nation and we should not be happy when they are fielded.

Joe - I wasn't assuming who, how or what weapon was used. Just glad that they are being successful in defending the country. 
Yeah, my term was not good, picked it up in conversations with the military guys without understanding the full context. Hadn't heard of Simo but have now.

Not too concerned about how they successfully defend the country just that it gets done. I read that a highly accomplished Canadian sniper was over there. Also read the same thing you stated about the $2,000 a day.

There is a young guy from our DZ that went there a couple weeks ago to help. He was initially doing humanitarian aid then was added to a fighter group that has people from various places including locals.
 

[SkyDekker 1,121]

2 hours ago, billeisele said:

I read that a highly accomplished Canadian sniper was over there.

Wali

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi folks,

Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel:  Ukraine also claims to have killed six Russian generals. Russia acknowledges just one dead general.

NATO: 7,000 to 15,000 Russian troops dead in Ukraine - oregonlive.com

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 910]

On 3/15/2022 at 11:51 AM, SkyDekker said:

Wali

AFAIK he was just a graduate of the CDN sniper programs and a former sniper service member with Afghan experience. But he is Canadian so likely to spread terror in Russian ranks.

CBC actually interviewed him the other day. He had a spotter with him, non Canadian. He was already in combat in the area north of Kiev.