Enemy at the gates

[JoeWeber 2,294]

At least one, maybe two, Russian Major Generals are reported to have been killed by snipers. 

[SkyDekker 1,119]

One is confirmed since the FSB agent with his unit had to use unencrypted comms to call his boss.....

This twitter thread is a great read.

Edited March 8, 2022 by SkyDekker

[Phil1111 901]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

At least one, maybe two, Russian Major Generals are reported to have been killed by snipers. 

We need to concentrate on good news here. Given how incompetently Russian generals have pursued this campaign. Don't you think the Ukrainians should have just let them go?

[Erroll 49]

3 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

This twitter thread is a great read.

Historians and other scholars will soon start writing about the huge influence that social media (and the Internet in general) had on this and other  conflicts. 

[sfzombie13 307]

9 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

We need to concentrate on good news here. Given how incompetently Russian generals have pursued this campaign. Don't you think the Ukrainians should have just let them go?

they let them go to hell, right where they need to be.

[Phil1111 901]

9 hours ago, Erroll said:

Historians and other scholars will soon start writing about the huge influence that social media (and the Internet in general) had on this and other  conflicts. 

Yes, together with MSM in motivating the west to act. Sanctions have fallen upon Russia like snowflakes in a Moscow winter storm.

[billeisele 122]

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

At least one, maybe two, Russian Major Generals are reported to have been killed by snipers. 

Joe - I've read that 50 cal sniper guns were delivered. With the mercs going there we may see more tactical attacks. I'm listening to discussions by retired COLs at my local military base that have been there. They say that killing the leaders in the fight is a good thing. It creates confusion.

The bigger conversation says that it's the Russian military that will be needed to stop Putin. The logic is the oligarchs will get tired of being financially and personally impacted. They will put pressure on the military leaders to take him out. It seems that those guys have the finances and influence to do anything.

No way to know if any of this is true. We'll see.

[BIGUN 1,042]

21 minutes ago, billeisele said:

I've read that 50 cal sniper guns were delivered.

Wali is probably giving classes. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

On 3/7/2022 at 9:43 PM, Phil1111 said:

We need to concentrate on good news here. Given how incompetently Russian generals have pursued this campaign. Don't you think the Ukrainians should have just let them go?

Well, keep in mind that, as incompetent as the dead generals were, they were the 'best of the best.'
So anyone replacing them will most likely not be 'better'.

Also, anyone replacing them will have previously been their subordinates. So those replacements will likely be of the same mindset and follow the same doctrine.

This is not the same as the C-in-C firing and replacing them (think the North in the US Civil War).
That is usually done to institute a change in doctrine.

Having the general killed in action won't do that.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:48 AM, billeisele said:

Joe - I've read that 50 cal sniper guns were delivered. With the mercs going there we may see more tactical attacks. I'm listening to discussions by retired COLs at my local military base that have been there. They say that killing the leaders in the fight is a good thing. It creates confusion.

The bigger conversation says that it's the Russian military that will be needed to stop Putin. The logic is the oligarchs will get tired of being financially and personally impacted. They will put pressure on the military leaders to take him out. It seems that those guys have the finances and influence to do anything.

No way to know if any of this is true. We'll see.

Interesting that you think it was mercenaries, not Ukrainian forces, that killed the officers with what must have been American made .50 Caliber sniper rifles. I'm guessing you haven't heard of Simo Häyhä. No matter. I will say that I think it is a seriously wrong practice to refer to hired killers, aka Mercenaries, and "mercs" in the same way grandma say's bowel movements are #2's. Be they of the Wagner Group (sounds like accountants, right?) or Blackwater (the port-a-pottie people?) they are hired killers without a nation and we should not be happy when they are fielded.

[ryoder 1,380]

17 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I'm guessing you haven't heard of Simo Häyhä. 

I don't think he did it. Wikipedia tells me he died in 2002. :P

[wmw999 2,114]

50 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I'm guessing you haven't heard of Simo Häyhä.

Is he related to Keyzer Söze?

Wendy P. 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

I don't think he did it. Wikipedia tells me he died in 2002. :P

Crap. I thought I'd nailed it. Steven Seagal still alive I'm pretty sure.

[BIGUN 1,042]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

I will say that I think it is a seriously wrong practice to refer to hired killers, aka Mercenaries, and "mercs" in the same way grandma say's bowel movements are #2's. Be they of the Wagner Group (sounds like accountants, right?) or Blackwater (the port-a-pottie people?) they are hired killers without a nation and we should not be happy when they are fielded.

Zelensky asked for help. His people are being killed and no one has stepped in to physically help. What would you have him do? 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

22 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Zelensky asked for help. His people are being killed and no one has stepped in to physically help. What would you have him do? 

It's a philosophical position. The Russians hire the Wagner Group, the Ukrainians hire others. If I were the Ukrainians I'd hire whoever I could afford. I simply think coming up with a cutesy name like "mercs" is slippery. We're normalizing a terrible thing:the outsourcing of the bloody end of the stick.

Edited March 9, 2022 by JoeWeber

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

5 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

It's a philosophical position. The Russians hire the Wagner Group, the Ukrainians hire others. If I were the Ukrainians I'd hire whoever I could afford. I simply think coming up with a cutesy name like "mercs" is slippery. We're normalizing a terrible thing:the outsourcing of the bloody end of the stick.

Hi Joe,

And our Lend Lease Program was really just the same thing.  This has been going on for a long, long time.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,294]

32 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

And our Lend Lease Program was really just the same thing.  This has been going on for a long, long time.

Jerry Baumchen

I'd say that's more than a stretch. No matter, anyone who believes that war should, all or in part, be privatized is certainly on solid ground these days and in days gone by. My point I think was both simple and clear: if we're going to do it let's leave the euphemisms behind. In this case "merc" sounds nice like the cool car your pop talked about. Mercenary, not so much.

[BIGUN 1,042]

13 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

if we're going to do it let's leave the euphemisms behind. In this case "merc" sounds nice like the cool car your pop talked about. Mercenary, not so much.

OK. Volunteer Legion it is. 

I wonder how many Americans know they could lose their US Citizenship by signing up. 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

13 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

OK. Volunteer Legion it is. 

I wonder how many Americans know they could lose their US Citizenship by signing up. 

Volunteers at $2 Grand a day? Okay, I guess. The reality is they are people who will kill or be killed for money. Fine, and if we need them we need them, but they aren't Peanuts characters and it shouldn't be an aspirational job for kids.

How many? 74 Million. We took a poll recently.

[BIGUN 1,042]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Volunteers at $2 Grand a day? Okay, I guess. The reality is they are people who will kill or be killed for money. Fine, and if we need them we need them, but they aren't Peanuts characters and it shouldn't be an aspirational job for kids.

It's not 2 grand a day for joining their legion. It's a normal military base pay. They have requirements. If you're not prior service (and have documentation) or law enforcement then they really don't want you and are communicating that. I understand this violates your core, but there are people that believe in helping to stop what Russia is doing.   

[kallend 1,618]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

OK. Volunteer Legion it is. 

I wonder how many Americans know they could lose their US Citizenship by signing up. 

Yep.

Been that way for a long long time.

For example, The RAF recognizes seven aircrew personnel who were from the United States as having taken part in the Battle of Britain. American citizens were prohibited from serving under the various U.S. Neutrality Acts: if an American citizen had defied the neutrality laws, there was a risk of losing their citizenship and imprisonment.   

[metalslug 31]

7 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Interesting that you think it was mercenaries, not Ukrainian forces, that killed the officers with what must have been American made .50 Caliber sniper rifles. 

Interesting that you think .50 cal was used for those kills. You don't suppose Ukrainian snipers are more familiar with their own smaller caliber weapons in much longer service?  The .50 cal M107 variants might look great in movies but are typically applied as anti-materiel rifles rather than anti-personnel. A recent report of a Ukrainian sniper (allegedly of some renown) now entering the conflict carries a Zbroyar Z-10 rifle in a comparatively modest 7.62x51mm caliber.

[Phil1111 901]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

It's not 2 grand a day for joining their legion. It's a normal military base pay. They have requirements. If you're not prior service (and have documentation) or law enforcement then they really don't want you and are communicating that. I understand this violates your core, but there are people that believe in helping to stop what Russia is doing.   

Its been published that there are just under 20,000 non citizen volunteers already. The UK government is already concerned that current serving members of UK forces. Are in Ukraine fighting now. The concern being that if they are captured, Russia could argue that NATO is already in Ukraine fighting.

Obviously there are untrained non-Ukrainians that are way out of their league. News reporters interviewed a 60 Y/O UK baker with no military training at the Ukrainian border.

But they are prepared to fight Russian aggression. Fight to protect a weaker population bullied by Russia. They are the opposite of many today. Who put self interest and let the other guy do it mentality. As the staple of at least a generation since those who served in WW2. Veterans who go, knowing full well what war is. The danger of capture and battle. Are not mercenaries, closer to heroes.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, metalslug said:

Interesting that you think .50 cal was used for those kills. You don't suppose Ukrainian snipers are more familiar with their own smaller caliber weapons in much longer service?  The .50 cal M107 variants might look great in movies but are typically applied as anti-materiel rifles rather than anti-personnel. A recent report of a Ukrainian sniper (allegedly of some renown) now entering the conflict carries a Zbroyar Z-10 rifle in a comparatively modest 7.62x51mm caliber.

You haven't read my posts.

[BIGUN 1,042]

55 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

But they are prepared to fight Russian aggression. Fight to protect a weaker population bullied by Russia. They are the opposite of many today. Who put self interest and let the other guy do it mentality. As the staple of at least a generation since those who served in WW2. Veterans who go, knowing full well what war is. The danger of capture and battle. 

Well said, Phil.