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swoopfly

USPA deemed FAA medical invalid

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7 hours ago, swoopfly said:

Does anyone read the parachutist magazine much ? Now I completely understand the other violations of people forging a medical certificate . But USPA in this instance just picked a guy out the crowd and refuse to recognize a VALID, legit FAA medical .......ironically after disapproving false allegations of threats on students ......

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Yep, I saw that. How do you know that the TI was "picked out of the crowd" randomly? It sounds like an assumption (by someone) and I would wager that there was something that specifically drew their fire. There are far too many of us for the BOD to individually police. These proceedings typically begin with a report of some kind. Much more likely that a report was filed and then the CG began their investigation. 

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1 hour ago, Deisel said:

Yep, I saw that. How do you know that the TI was "picked out of the crowd" randomly? It sounds like an assumption (by someone) and I would wager that there was something that specifically drew their fire. There are far too many of us for the BOD to individually police. These proceedings typically begin with a report of some kind. Much more likely that a report was filed and then the CG began their investigation. 

Picked out of the crowd ? Well that’s easy ..... because this Ti is the only person in the history of USPA to have valid paperwork they can’t recognize ? What would you tell an officer who can’t recognize your state issued ID? And violated you on not having one ? Not because you didn’t actually have it , but because since he can’t recognize yours only that puts you in violation . I hope I wouldn’t have to explain the absurdity in that to the average person . Again USPA list the FAA medical as acceptable, you can’t do tandems without a medical while actually holding an FAA medical . And be in violation . 

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8 hours ago, swoopfly said:

Again USPA list the FAA medical as acceptable, you can’t do tandems without a medical while actually holding an FAA medical . And be in violation . 

Whole lot of hair splitting going on here.

It is a USPA tandem rating, so setting aside our expectations of due process, if they decide that you don't meet the requirements they can revoke your rating.

There must be a soap opera of epic proportions behind all of this. Some one either had a big axe to grind with this instructor, or had concerns about this instructors fitness conduct tandems. Either way they reached out the USPA with a compelling enough story to put this all in motion. The USPA doesn't do random audits of these type of thing without being put on the trail.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DougH said:

Whole lot of hair splitting going on here.

It is a USPA tandem rating, so setting aside our expectations of due process, if they decide that you don't meet the requirements they can revoke your rating.

There must be a soap opera of epic proportions behind all of this. Some one either had a big axe to grind with this instructor, or had concerns about this instructors fitness conduct tandems. Either way they reached out the USPA with a compelling enough story to put this all in motion. The USPA doesn't do random audits of these type of thing without being put on the trail.

 

 

Not sure how you consider this hair splitting . It’s actually spelled out pretty clearly in the sim and online . You must possess a current class 3 medical , it even goes on to state how to obtain one and mentions it’s the “instructors “ responsibility to keep it up to date ,not USPA in fact they can’t even issue medicals much less revoke one. 

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(edited)
13 minutes ago, swoopfly said:

Not sure how you consider this hair splitting . It’s actually spelled out pretty clearly in the sim and online . You must possess a current class 3 medical , it even goes on to state how to obtain one and mentions it’s the “instructors “ responsibility to keep it up to date ,not USPA in fact they can’t even issue medicals much less revoke one. 

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

Edited by DougH

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(edited)
4 hours ago, DougH said:

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

Most likely a means to an end. And most likely an expedient and also cowardly way to resolve a problem. 

Edited by gowlerk
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13 hours ago, DougH said:

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

Interesting ! So you believe a person with no medical training , no medical license even for that matter . Can make an FAA medical determination for the FAA staff . I believe the only issue of the TI rating would be one is the ti on drugs that maybe a problem ......well here’s two letters one from a doctor and another from an Airmen Medical Examiner stating he is not . Issue solved. And two did said instructor violate the bsr we say he did . Operate without a class 3 medical. Well USPa has his medical on file not hard to confirm , there’s even an FAA database with listed instructor . Also what dz do you know allowing ti to operate without a medical . They should be in violation too . But there never was a named location and place because a violation never occurred that the CG claim and they could never give a time date and place that such violation occurred . Seems rather ironic 

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(edited)
59 minutes ago, swoopfly said:

So you believe a person with no medical training , no medical license even for that matter . Can make an FAA medical determination for the FAA staff .

They didn't do that.

59 minutes ago, swoopfly said:

I believe the only issue of the TI rating would be one is the ti on drugs that maybe a problem

Wait, I thought you said that the USPA can't make a medical determination?! "seems rather ironic".

The class 3 medical has a 60 month renewal if you are under 40 years old.

If my medical has 4 years on the clock, and the USPA was put on notice that I recently I suffered a head injury and experienced a partial loss of vision that would have precluded me from getting the medical if they were pre-existing conditions at the time of my last medical, should they knowingly consider my medical requirement to be met for the next four renewals?

Maybe DZ A told me to hang it up because I was having close calls and endangering students, so I just went to Shitty McDZO down the street who was happy to have a warm body. Is the USPA supposed to sit on their hands until the FAA catches up with my medical condition?

I am not saying that the USPA made the right decision, or that due process was followed, but I disagree with your premise that they don't have the authority to do what they did.

So when do we get to hear the juicy details from "As the Prop Turns". Who stole whose rotation or girlfriend? Who was acting like such a pain in the ass that all of these dominos started falling?

 

 

Edited by DougH

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35 minutes ago, DougH said:

They didn't do that.

Wait, I thought you said that the USPA can't make a medical determination?! "seems rather ironic".

The class 3 medical has a 60 month renewal if you are under 40 years old.

If my medical has 4 years on the clock, and the USPA was put on notice that I recently I suffered a head injury and experienced a partial loss of vision that would have precluded me from getting the medical if they were pre-existing conditions at the time of my last medical, should they knowingly consider my medical requirement to be met for the next four renewals?

Maybe DZ A told me to hang it up because I was having close calls and endangering students, so I just went to Shitty McDZO down the street who was happy to have a warm body. Is the USPA supposed to sit on their hands until the FAA catches up with my medical condition?

I am not saying that the USPA made the right decision, or that due process was followed, but I disagree with your premise that they don't have the authority to do what they did.

So when do we get to hear the juicy details from "As the Prop Turns". Who stole whose rotation or girlfriend? Who was acting like such a pain in the ass that all of these dominos started falling?

 

 

The sim clearly states you cannot be under the influence of alcohol or drugs (with an obvious reason ). And USPA absolutely has the right to take action against an instructor whose operating under the influence of alcohol or drugs ..... but accusing a person of being on drugs and then them providing evidence that the source was obviously wrong.... and then ignoring the very evidence they claim would saitisfy them.

now accusing an instructor on being on non scheduled drug and claiming it invalidates the medical certificate is quite an opinion ... are we going to start pulling ratings on ti who use Sudafed on those winter mornings because you know it is a non scheduled drug listed not for use by the FAA 

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17 hours ago, DougH said:

So when do we get to hear the juicy details from "As the Prop Turns". Who stole whose rotation or girlfriend? Who was acting like such a pain in the ass that all of these dominos started falling?

 

 

That's exactly what I was implying, but didn't want to accuse. Seems to me that somebody dropped a dime to the Po-Po and they came a looking. How many time have we seen this play out before... There was no random picking out of a crowd. This guy was targeted for a reason (rightly or wrongly) and the medical was the vehicle used to crush him. IMO. 

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On 6/1/2022 at 3:51 PM, DougH said:

They didn't issue or revoke a medical.

They refused to accept the provided FAA medical as sufficient to meet their requirements.

It is a very clear distinction. Again, they aren't issuing or revoking a medical, they aren't the FAA they can't do that obviously. Instead they are evaluating whether their requirement is met given additional information, since it is their requirement and their tandem rating credential they have latitude in determining whether the requirement was met. 

    I notice your stuck on the executive committess stance that they refuse to recognize a  Valid FAA medical. But if you can differentiate from the CG and EC "verbage" you will notice the story changed quite offten in this case just like the regional directors over this case. If you will note:

  " USPA has suspended your tandem rating until you lawfully renew your FAA 3rd class medical through Joseph E. Allen, M.D., AME #03636 or an AME he recommends. If an AME, other than Dr. Allen, issues you a FAA Medical Certificate, the Compliance Group must receive, in writing, from that AME, confirmation that he has received all your medication and medical history from Dr. Allen"

 

 

   Now by claiming a member MUST "Lawfully" renew a medical would be indictive of saying the meidcal they hold is not valid! i dont care how you word it. Even going on to pick out the only medical examiner across the entire united states who may renew it is a peculiar reach within itself. There is no requirement here to meet these conditions and at the time the letter was written the TI in question had a medical in his hand, that was valid according to the FAA. one with common sense would assume the case would be closed. but Then the EC decided that since the CG was proven wrong they can just all decide not to accept an FAA medical certificate. if one cares to read the governance manual it states all members of this organization will be treated openly honestly and most important FAIRLY. I got the permission of the member to share this letter in its redacted form. 

edited CG Letter.pdf

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On 3/4/2022 at 11:47 PM, swoopfly said:

hello

 

     The topic of discussion, USPA has acted to what seems to many examiners and members as an inappropriate disciplinary action against a member. They have made a judgement that the members Class 3 medical is invalid based solely on the compliance groups investigation. Disregarding the FAA website clearly showing the Instructor has a current Class 3 medical and even had verification from the FAA that the medical is still in date and valid. The USPA has looked behind the members valid FAA medical and deemed it not acceptable for USPA tandem instructor rating. Therefore "claiming" the instructor violated USPA BSR's "conducting tandem jumps without a Class 3 medical Certificate" . Im reaching out as a topic to discuss, what right do you think USPA has to Judge a medical certificate? They do not issues medicals, they have no person on staff that even has a medical license and further and foremost they are not appointed by the FAA to make such an arbitrary decision against the member.        

 

That is overstepping there authority. 

They have no authority to say the medical certification is invalid if it is valid at the FAA you know the regulating agency over the USPA witch is not a government agency and has no legal authority over the Government agency FAA...

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Two or Three years ago, there was an FAA medical examiner in Florida who was issuing medical certificates to people he did not examine or even see in person.  The FAA found out and revoked his ability to perform FAA medical exams.  All medical certificates issued by this doctor were invalid.  Pilots who had a current medical certificate issued by this doctor had a short period of time to be examined by another FAA medical examiner.  A pilot friend of mine had used this doctor and had to scramble to have another exam.

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So, rather have USPA just turn him in to the FAA?

If this was 10 or more years ago, I might believe that maybe this was a personal thing between the TI and his RD, but not now.

The new disciplinary procedures, combined with a preference for education over discipline by the safety and training committee, would lead me to bet on USPA being in the right on this one.

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On 5/28/2023 at 3:53 PM, ufk22 said:

So, rather have USPA just turn him in to the FAA?

If this was 10 or more years ago, I might believe that maybe this was a personal thing between the TI and his RD, but not now.

The new disciplinary procedures, combined with a preference for education over discipline by the safety and training committee, would lead me to bet on USPA being in the right on this one.

Actually thats exactly what USPA did, was contact the FAA to take this instructors medical. after the FAA concluded that there was no legitimate reasoning for their request. The USPA decided they can just choose not to accept the memebers valid medical. they even posted it in parachutist which was shared earlier. "refuse to recognize a class 3 medical, for failing to meet FAA requirements" when asked what requirement the guy didnt meet there was never an answer given, probably because its bs. 

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