Candidate for the USPA BOD

[ufk22 32]

fencebuster

What I am saying is that if you want to say the FAA medical is required for medical fitness that is not what it is being used for now. It was very clearly explained to me that the purpose is to track DUIs for USPA,

Can you expand on this statement?
How and why would USPA track DUI's?
Who told you this?

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[DSE 3]

Unstable

So far I have only seen one issue, and that is the TM's and DUI's. Where else could a BOD member have to choose between two masters?

-Most any tandem issue (tandems before 18 y/o, demos, gear life span, etc)

-Manufacturers may decide to require XXX for AFF, static, IAD, where DZO's don't want it.

-Insurance conversations

-Mandatory AADs nationwide (wouldn't that make Airtec, Vigil, and Mars happy?)

-Landing area topics could have them serving individuals differently than groups.

There are myriad places where the BOD might serve manufacturers over the best interests of individuals, and very few places where it might serve the other way. Keep in mind that just as many skydivers want manufacturer sponsorship, so do some members of the BOD, just in a different way.

Attend a BOD meeting; I recommend every member of the USPA attend at least one. You'll get an idea of which RD's actually do anything, and which ones are there to have a free flight and meals to somewhere other than their homeland. There are BOD members that shake hard, work hard, and come prepared with data from their regional membership, there are those that are there solely for the purpose of making sure no rules are passed that will (in their perception) negatively impact their DZ operations, and there are those that literally sit on their ass and argue about punctuation and spelling, offering nothing but useless drivel. You'll watch a great deal of backtracking, you'll see some empassioned beliefs, you'll see at least one BOD member sleeping (I remember when he once snored loudly in a meeting).

It's a great cross-section of society.

[jlmiracle 7]

So, DSE, are you saying that if you were running, you would be more likely representing the Group Memberships then you would be the individual memberships?

There is no manufacturer membership that I am aware of.

As you stated about attending a meeting, and I have attended a few, they sleep, play on their phones, text their buddy across the room, make fun of the guy doing the current presentation, read the newspaper and really give no indication they want to do the job they ran for and were elected to do. They are there to get drunk and do their little under the tables deals.

Quote

Keep in mind that just as many skydivers want manufacturer sponsorship, so do some members of the BOD, just in a different way.

What is your source for the above statement?

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[fencebuster 7]

Mike Mullins told me this. I have a lengthy e-mail that I will forward to you if you PM me your e-mail address.

Sorry I have been off site for a few days, I had a DZ to run over the weekend and had to travel first thing Monday.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[fencebuster 7]

Here, DSE and I totally agree.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[fencebuster 7]

I believe an organization should be there for its members and that our first priority should be to promote programs and policies of benefit to actual skydivers. While Group Members are technically members of the organization, they are not living breathing skydivers. I agree that the Group members are over-represented, at least in the policies implemented. I would not have supported raising the BSR for container opening at 2500 because I believe so few actual skydivers were pulling at 2000 feet on current equipment and that the Board was legislating a solution in search of a problem.

The issue of rule breakers is problematic because more frequently than not, there are no reports to the RD. I believe that the Governance Manual could use a re-write, although right now I have no warrant, and no leverage to undertake such an effort with any chance of success.

And, the issue of ratings courses at non-Group members is of particular interest to me. I have been told that non-Group members cannot host ratings courses, although I can't seem to find the reference for that alleged rule. That is a policy that hurts skydivers, particularly at smaller DZs, and is of benefit only to Group Members, for reasons that I presently do not believe have any logical basis. So I would look int that issue and see what can be done to change it, if that is the case.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[catfishhunter 1]

I'm sure he is talking about the proliferation of professional skydivers hoping to make a serious living off being a tunnel rat and youtube,redbull,monster superstar

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[jlmiracle 7]

Thank you for your replies Charlie.

Many years ago, my husband and I attended a board meeting to get an AFF certification course at our home dropzone, because we had the minimum candidates interested, which is a non-GM. This was back when Don Yarling was in charge. At that time, our RD and Glen Bang (pre-bod) told us no way would that ever happen. Don Yarling had no problem with it, he said he holds them at non-gm places all the time, particularly overseas and there was no reason for the board to deny us. We got out way, we got our course, but the next meeting they added the extortion fee(as I call it) to non-GM dz to hold rating courses.

I appreciate your desire to be on BOD, answering my questions, and wish you the best of luck!

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[peek 20]

fencebuster

And, the issue of ratings courses at non-Group members is of particular interest to me. I have been told that non-Group members cannot host ratings courses, although I can't seem to find the reference for that alleged rule. That is a policy that hurts skydivers, particularly at smaller DZs, and is of benefit only to Group Members, for reasons that I presently do not believe have any logical basis.

Not only that! If an individual member is presented their jump number or freefall time award at the DZ and a picture and text are submitted to Parachutist for inclusion in the Wings and Things column, the drop zone's actual name is mentioned only if they are a Group Member.

In other words, if you jump at a non-GM DZ, you are a second-class member. No ratings course for you. No mention of your drop zone's name.

See the attached pictures.

[fencebuster 7]

Just wow. All I can say . . . .

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[catfishhunter 1]

No the dropzone has chosen not to be a group member so they should not get free advertising. The member (you) are mentioned. I am sure Mike has no problem with this as he sits on the board. He chose, for his own reasons, not to be a GM and being mentioned in Parachutist isn't a reason for him to change.

USPA for whatever reason decided to set up the GM program. It is what we now have and it isn't going away. If you want it to go away you need to sign up and show up and step up., If it goes away then lots of other things follow so that revenue will need to be replaced so before starting a war to remove it you will need to have something to replace it.

Non-GM DZ's choose not to part of the USPA and that's fine they don't have to be but they also cannot expect to reap the benefits of being part of the USPA. They do not get to have their cake and eat it too. If you are missing out on anything tell them to step up or take your money elsewhere.

P.S. Peek it isn't your dropzone it is Mike Mullins Dropzone

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[peek 20]

So it is OK with you that an individual member, who is proud of their home DZ, does not even get to see their DZs name mentioned while receiving an award?

(You do realize that I am talking about Paul (my very good friend for whom I am delighted to present an award to) don't you? Not myself or Mike Mullins.)

By the way, I don't see much opportunity for "advertising" in Wings and Things". :)

There are very few true, significant advantages to being a Group Member DZ, and that is why "advantages to GMs" have been "manufactured" by removing/denying things for/to individual members.

What is really a travesty is that many USPA members have been made to think that GM DZs are "safer" than non GM DZs.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Gary,

Quote

many USPA members have been made to think that GM DZs are "safer" then non GM DZs.

Ted Mayfield's Sheridan Sky Sports for many, many years was a USPA GM dz.

Just sayin . . .

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,380]

>There are very few true, significant advantages to being a Group Member DZ,
>and that is why "advantages to GMs" have been "manufactured" by
>removing/denying things for/to individual members.

If that's true then the solution is simple - end the GM program.

[DSE 3]

jlmiracle

So, DSE, are you saying that if you were running, you would be more likely representing the Group Memberships then you would be the individual memberships?

There is no manufacturer membership that I am aware of.

As you stated about attending a meeting, and I have attended a few, they sleep, play on their phones, text their buddy across the room, make fun of the guy doing the current presentation, read the newspaper and really give no indication they want to do the job they ran for and were elected to do. They are there to get drunk and do their little under the tables deals.

Quote

Keep in mind that just as many skydivers want manufacturer sponsorship, so do some members of the BOD, just in a different way.

What is your source for the above statement?

Judy

No, there is no manufacturer membership, that's what PIA is for.
And...plenty of manufacturers and their people are members themselves, so of course they get a vote that way, too. Bill Booth, Sandy Reid, etc, all members of USPA and they have their own voice.

I don't have an issue with BOD members wanting to be "friendly" with manufacturers and whatever agenda a manufacturer may have from time to time, so long as it doesn't interfere with how they represent individuals in their Region. More than once, I've observed RD's go exactly opposite what their region had requested, either in presentation or polls. One RD commented that his region "didn't know what they wanted, and didn't understand what was going on."

At the same time, I wonder if the individual members understand how much the manufacturers bring to the table for competitions and overall support for USPA?

My bigger concern is that there are BOD members that are on the board simply to protect their turf, their DZ. Those BOD members don't at all represent their memberships, IMO. They represent their own business.

Does that best serve the needs of a membership organization?

[peek 20]

billvon

If that's true then the solution is simple - end the GM program.

Oh, my, Bill, I hope that you don't think that it would be simple. If you can think of a way, please suggest something.

Actually at this point, I would be delighted to just not see individual members penalized in the ways I previously mentioned.

[catfishhunter 1]

I didn't say that. I said that's how it is. If the DZ owner wants something different they need to become a GM or the skydiver wants something different then they need to go to a GM DZ.

If you want to get rid of the GM program then come up with a better program. Me I am content with how things are. Doesn't mean I agree or disagree at least not to the point that I am going to bitch about any perceived wrongs that I am NOT prepared to offer a sound fix to whatever it is I decide to bitch about.

As for non GM DZ's they don't get a say. If they want a say then they need to sign up and pay their dues. I don't think heard Mike or Bill complain about not getting the perks the GM's get. Pretty sure they are very content NOT being GM's

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[GoHuskers 0]

Hi Charlie,

I'm a fun jumper. I'm not in any way concerned with the business of skydiving. I've been a USPA member for 5 years and have never voted.

How would you make skydiving better for weekend fun jumpers?

[jlmiracle 7]

DSE - Not everyone wants to compete. I pay my way, I buy my own gear. I'm not sure what the manufactures bring to the table for someone like me who just wants to jump, not compete.

Quote

More than once, I've observed RD's go exactly opposite what their region had requested, either in presentation or polls. One RD commented that his region "didn't know what they wanted, and didn't understand what was going on."

This has always been a problem with both regional and national directors. They don't care what the members want, they have their own agenda. How do we fix this? How do we fix the under the table deals that go on at every meeting. How do we keep the whole membership informed? They need to publish who voted for what. We need to make the board accountable to the members.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[DSE 3]

This should likely be split off into it's own thread

Sport competition and tandems fund this sport.
Without funding, there would be no development. Without development, the sport would stagnate. Can we agree on that?

Development means BOC instead of ripcords, three rings instead of Capewells, squares instead of rounds, and turbines instead of pistons.

In short, we NEED manufacturers to be present, part of USPA, part of competitions, and evolving the sport. So..it's good that we recognize their importance to the board, to our sport, to individual members. It's trickle-down politics.

I entirely agree, RD's should be forced to vote by name. I've been present when several RD's have voiced a request to vote by name; it usually comes across as a threat. "I ask for a vote by name" so that when the position passes or fails, the RD has to answer to his/her region for voting against them. Unfortunately, that's not often the case.

There is at least one person on the board who often flipflops his position, voting for what his friends want vs what the USPA needs. I've watched him do it more than once. For the first time in a while, he's running against opposition, so with luck, he'll disappear from the board. With more 'modern' people on the board, perhaps voting by name could become more common.

[peek 20]

DSE

I entirely agree, RD's should be forced to vote by name.

I think all Directors should. Jan Meyer developed a web-based voting system that was used for a couple of meetings. By its very design it recorded all the votes, but it was a lot of work on her part getting it to work, plus not many people seemed that interested in it.

Quote

I've been present when several RD's have voiced a request to vote by name; it usually comes across as a threat. "I ask for a vote by name" so that when the position passes or fails, the RD has to answer to his/her region for voting against them. Unfortunately, that's not often the case.

Wait a minute, it's not exactly like that. Voters may ask for their own vote to be recorded "by name", which is then listed in the meeting "minutes". No one is forced to vote by name.

[fencebuster 7]

I completely agree that all BOD votes should be on the record, by name. If I am elected, I will work to obtain consensus to make this a change to the Governance Manual. If the individual Board members are unwilling to let the membership know their position on issues of concern to the organization and its membership, they should resign, or not be re-elected by the membership. It is that simple.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[fencebuster 7]

I am not sure it is possible for a Director to directly affect individual skydivers' experiences. However, I think BOD members should represent "skydivers" and be attuned to what our individual skydiver members want from their organization. For example, BOD votes on the record by name should be the norm, to assure our members of transparency by their elected BOD. As BOD member, I would ask myself the question, what does this policy do for individual skydivers? Will such a policy affect skydivers in a beneficial way? Up thread, I stated I would have voted "No" on the BSR change for container opening altitude to 2500 feet. Most responsible skydivers do not open at 2000 feet and I felt that "solution" was in search of a problem.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

[jimjumper 25]

One thing that BOD members do individually that does directly effect individual jumpers is their appointing of S+TA’s. USPA has increasingly delegated responsibility for safety issues and the management of safety programs to those S+TA’s. They have become defacto the USPA representative at the DZ and set the tone for the enforcement of those programs to novices and Instructors alike. They have also become the informational link between USPA and the general membership. However, since there are virtually no requirements to be appointed as an S+TA that leadership position is sometimes wasted or ignored by the general membership. I think it could be an excellent information pipeline between the BOD and the general membership but only if the position is upgraded with some minimum standards and becomes more of a USPA representative for a DZ to USPA via the Regional Director.

[fencebuster 7]

I like the way you think. I do believe that the Governance Manual could use an update and this is an area that could be made stronger on behalf of both membership and the organization as a whole.

Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures