3 3
SkyDekker

Ukraine

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, jakee said:

the Texas GOP is condemning it coming too late to copy for the midterms.

LOL. Texans need to check out Zimbabwe where voter intimidation is rife but nobody in the rest of the world seems to give a flying F. They don't do too much well in good old Zim these days but they certainly know how to get the voting right. Yes, I know, admin.....this should be in Joke of the Day forum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jakee said:

‘..., the Texas GOP is condemning it coming too late to copy for the midterms.

 

2 hours ago, Bokdrol said:

LOL. Texans need to check out Zimbabwe where voter intimidation is rife but nobody in the rest of the world seems to give a flying F. They don't do too much well in good old Zim these days but they certainly know how to get the voting right. ..

The GOP uses modern education techniques like Hannity, MTG,  FOX and trump.i.e. lies, distraction, promises of "trickle down utopia" Using Gestapo type tactics is so outdated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BartG said:

Son of Putin's spokesperson isn't too happy about serving:

Nikolay Peskov pranked, caught trying to get out of military service (nypost.com)

The mobilization is a general mobilization and not limited to 300k as Putin originally stated. A Kremlin insider reported the objective is 1,000,000.

Obviously more fodder for Ukrainian cannons must erase earlier defeats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like a infamous US president. President Putin has decided that he knows more than his generals. He is now directing the battle plan according to US officials. He has ordered that there will be no retreat from Kherson even though Russian troops have been largely cut off.

Stalin was famous in the first several years of WW ll for ordering Soviet forces to stand their ground or be shot. The Germans regularly encircled them. Cut them off from resupply. Then either took hundreds of thousands prisoner. Or just shot them. Perhaps Putin is not as great a historian as he thinks he is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Perhaps Putin is not as great a historian as he thinks he is.

I think its a lot more that he's not been told 'no' in a long time.

So he doesn't understand when he cannot get something done.

We saw this in the US, with the run up to the Iraq invasion.

Everyone who had a contrarian view was ignored, dismissed or attacked (at least Cheney didn't directly kill anyone).
As a result, real information that the WMDs didn't exist was suppressed, the pretext for the invasion was sold to the population and the next decade was a shitshow of death and destruction in Iraq.

Putin is ignoring, dismissing or murdering anyone who disagrees with him.

So legitimate concerns or criticisms are not getting through.

He's become the 'emperor with no clothes' ('no army' for Putin), and he's not being told he can't win anymore.

The Russian army is going to be decimated, Russia won't really be a 'world power', Putin will likely get the 'full Mussolini' at some point.

The 'wild card' is the nukes they have. 
I have little doubt that Putin will try to use them when he has no other options left.
I can only hope that the Army officers who have the actual control over them have he willingness and ability to resist using then when Putin tells them to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zelensky offers guarantees for Russian soldiers who surrender

Appealing directly to Russians during an address, Zelensky said Ukraine could guarantee three terms to Russian soldiers in exchange for their surrender. He said such Russians will be treated in a civilized manner, the circumstances of their surrender will remain undisclosed and Ukraine will find a way to ensure those who do not want to return to Russia are not exchanged.

Sounds like an attractive way to GTFO of Russia! (As long as you can find a way to surrender before Ukraine lobs a missile at you.)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2022 at 6:16 AM, Phil1111 said:

Like a infamous US president. President Putin has decided that he knows more than his generals. He is now directing the battle plan according to US officials. He has ordered that there will be no retreat from Kherson even though Russian troops have been largely cut off.

Stalin was famous in the first several years of WW ll for ordering Soviet forces to stand their ground or be shot. The Germans regularly encircled them. Cut them off from resupply. Then either took hundreds of thousands prisoner. Or just shot them. Perhaps Putin is not as great a historian as he thinks he is.

On the Eastern Front, both sides were brutal on Prisoners of War during World War 2. Hitler intended to clear Eastern Europe of Slavic untermensch to make way for good, upstanding German farmers.

To that end, Nazis executed thousands of P.O.W.s especially leaders: professors, politicians, journalists, army officers, writers, poet, play-wrights, etc. in Poland.

Meanwhile, the USSR starved thousands of P.O.W.s or let them freeze to death. They also deported huge numbers to labor camps in Siberia and kept them there for a decade after the war ended. Only a handful survived.

Far more bled to death on the Eastern Front that while fighting in Western Europe (WALLIES included Americans, Brazilians, Brits, Canadians, Indians, Free French, Free Poles, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
18 hours ago, ryoder said:

Zelensky offers guarantees for Russian soldiers who surrender

Appealing directly to Russians during an address, Zelensky said Ukraine could guarantee three terms to Russian soldiers in exchange for their surrender. He said such Russians will be treated in a civilized manner, the circumstances of their surrender will remain undisclosed and Ukraine will find a way to ensure those who do not want to return to Russia are not exchanged.

Sounds like an attractive way to GTFO of Russia! (As long as you can find a way to surrender before Ukraine lobs a missile at you.)

Interesting that Ukraine is offering favorable surrender terms.

I have a feeling they're going to end up with 'just a few' takers for that.

Wagner group is apparently recruiting prisoners (like convicts in Russian prisons).
Offering decent pay, amnesty for the crimes that landed them in prison and promises that war crimes committed in Ukraine wouldn't be punished.

There are reports that some of them are simply finding a Ukrainian to surrender to as soon as they get there.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/russia-recruits-inmates-ukraine-war-wagner-prigozhin

Different article on the same subject:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/wagner-group-russia-prisoners-captured-ukrainian-forces

 

Interesting that the article claims that many Wagner fighters are "renowned for their far-right views and Slavic nationalism."

Funny how many of the Russian trolls want us to believe that the Ukrainians are all "Nazis and fascists", when it seems like the Wagner group mercenaries share some of those same traits.

Edited by wolfriverjoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, ryoder said:

Sounds like an attractive way to GTFO of Russia! (As long as you can find a way to surrender before Ukraine lobs a missile at you.)

And if even 5% of those people volunteer for military service . . . . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How MacGyver helped Ukraine sink some Russian ships.

“We got them off the ship, put them on some flatbed trucks, put the Harpoons, the modules on the flatbed truck, and then a different flatbed truck for the power source, connected a cable between it, figured out was exportable, brought the Ukrainians to train on it over Memorial Day weekend, in our country, over Memorial Day weekend, and the next week two Russian ships were sunk with those Harpoons,” he said.

The U.S. was part of a coalition team that did the training, a U.S. defense official said later. A "vendor" trained the Ukrainians, the official said.

The Boeing-made Harpoon anti-ship missiles used in the strike were given to the Ukrainians by a U.S. ally that LaPlante did not disclose. The missiles were removed from the ally’s ship and then mounted on the back of a flatbed truck. A second flatbed truck served as a “power source,” he said. “There's incredible innovation going on right now and we just don't talk about it enough.” 

In mid-June, Ukraine said it deployed Harpoons provided by Denmark. Days later, reports emerged that the Ukrainian military had sunk the Russian naval supply ship Spasatel Vasily Bekh. A week later the Pentagon said Ukraine had sunk that ship with Harpoons."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're heading into a particularly dangerous phase now.  Putin is losing - badly - and his sham referendum will serve to further back him into a corner.  When it comes back showing that 96% of Ukranians believe that they are Russians and are begging for Putin to protect them, he will lose the option to say "well, the people there are crazy Nazis so we're just going to leave them to their insanity."

So where does he go from here?  He can throw all those new conscripts onto the field.   But just as his attempts to use prisoners showed, those conscripts are going to see a lot of benefits in surrendering and spending the rest of the war somewhere safe.  And he can no longer adequately arm them.

He can fly missions to reduce Ukrainian cities to rubble.  But he's tried that already.  Didn't change the course of the war.

That leaves tactical NBC weapons.  And while most of his nuclear weapons are no doubt junk by this point, he has over 1000 - so the odds are that one will work.  And that will escalate VERY quickly.  The Ukrainains have the ability to hit points within Russia but have not done so because they just want the war over.  That will change once nukes get used.

And chemical or biological weapons will cause such a global stink that the repercussions of that might well be worse than anything that is happening right now inside Russia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, billvon said:

We're heading into a particularly dangerous phase now.  Putin is losing - badly - and his sham referendum will serve to further back him into a corner.  When it comes back showing that 96% of Ukranians believe that they are Russians and are begging for Putin to protect them, he will lose the option to say "well, the people there are crazy Nazis so we're just going to leave them to their insanity."

So where does he go from here?  He can throw all those new conscripts onto the field.   But just as his attempts to use prisoners showed, those conscripts are going to see a lot of benefits in surrendering and spending the rest of the war somewhere safe.  And he can no longer adequately arm them.

He can fly missions to reduce Ukrainian cities to rubble.  But he's tried that already.  Didn't change the course of the war.

That leaves tactical NBC weapons.  And while most of his nuclear weapons are no doubt junk by this point, he has over 1000 - so the odds are that one will work.  And that will escalate VERY quickly.  The Ukrainains have the ability to hit points within Russia but have not done so because they just want the war over.  That will change once nukes get used.

And chemical or biological weapons will cause such a global stink that the repercussions of that might well be worse than anything that is happening right now inside Russia.

Russia detonating NBCW in Ukraine risks fall-out drifting over Russian farms and ruining their productivity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Russia detonating NBCW in Ukraine risks fall-out drifting over Russian farms and ruining their productivity.

Yep.  But if it comes down to (in Putin's mind) reducing Russian farm productivity vs. surviving, he may take survival.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, billvon said:

We're heading into a particularly dangerous phase now.  Putin is losing - badly - and his sham referendum will serve to further back him into a corner.  When it comes back showing that 96% of Ukranians believe that they are Russians and are begging for Putin to protect them, he will lose the option to say "well, the people there are crazy Nazis so we're just going to leave them to their insanity."

So where does he go from here?  He can throw all those new conscripts onto the field.   But just as his attempts to use prisoners showed, those conscripts are going to see a lot of benefits in surrendering and spending the rest of the war somewhere safe.  And he can no longer adequately arm them.

He can fly missions to reduce Ukrainian cities to rubble.  But he's tried that already.  Didn't change the course of the war.

That leaves tactical NBC weapons.  And while most of his nuclear weapons are no doubt junk by this point, he has over 1000 - so the odds are that one will work.  And that will escalate VERY quickly.  The Ukrainains have the ability to hit points within Russia but have not done so because they just want the war over.  That will change once nukes get used.

And chemical or biological weapons will cause such a global stink that the repercussions of that might well be worse than anything that is happening right now inside Russia.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u-s-warns-russia-of-catastrophic-consequences-if-it-uses-nukes-in-ukraine-11664141192?mod=home-page
 

Other than that they will be catastrophic there’s no word publicly on what the consequences will be, but supposedly the Russians have already been made aware of what will come next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

Russia detonating NBCW in Ukraine risks fall-out drifting over Russian farms and ruining their productivity.

In other news they’ve (probably) just blown up their own gas pipelines to Northern Europe purely to make the EU uncomfortable moving towards winter. Putin is more than happy to cut Russia’s nose off if it means spiting someone else’s face. Heck, as the leader of Russia, not caring about Russians is one of the pre-requisites of the job.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, billvon said:

Yep.  But if it comes down to (in Putin's mind) reducing Russian farm productivity vs. surviving, he may take survival.

If Putin uses NBC, his chances for survival go down.

Both for him personally and for Russia as a whole. I'd think he's well aware of this.

His use of them would be far more of a 'final fuck you' than attempting to survive.

As I noted earlier, I'm HOPING that the people in charge of actually activating the NBC stuff realize this and either refuse (very dangerous) or have 'technical issues' that prevent them from using them (still dangerous, but less so).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep.  But if it comes down to (in Putin's mind) reducing Russian farm productivity vs. surviving, he may take survival.

You would think he is aware that he would not survive that. But he may not care anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His use of NBC weapons would likely arise from some sort of false flag operation. A chem or bio attack on one of his new Russian states in Ukraine.Killing a bunch of "new Russian" citizen-patriots. He would blame it on the US-Ukrainian weapons lab that republicans and other right wingers only seem to be aware of.

Or perhaps a staged attack on Russian territory that "discovers" US made weapons as the cause of attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

3 3