Ukraine

[jakee 603]

On 3/6/2022 at 2:52 PM, olofscience said:

Just keep Ukraine alive for the next few months.

Remember all the arguments about how expensive it was for the USA to keep forces in the Middle East for almost 20 years? Resupplying them, getting back troops with PTSD, etc.?

That was expensive even for the the biggest economy in the world. And nobody was sanctioning the US then.

Russia, with their economy already smaller than Italy before the invasion, will be going bankrupt even without counting the ongoing military expenses. They probably have until June at the latest. They'll run out of ammo, out of money, and out of friends.

So we’re bang in the middle of June, Russia is still grinding forwards over the rubble of the Donbas and Ukraine is begging the west for more ammo and weapons systems amid dire warnings that they are running out of firepower.

How’s this prediction going for you?

Edited June 12 by jakee

[olofscience 213]

26 minutes ago, jakee said:

So we’re bang in the middle of June, Russia is still grinding forwards over the rubble of the Donbas and Ukraine is begging the west for more ammo and weapons systems amid dire warnings that they are running out of firepower.

How’s this prediction going for you?

Not very good.

But then again, Russia has completely retreated from Kyiv, Ukraine is counterattacking in Kherson and Russia is bogged down fighting for a strategically insignificant city in Donbas while Ukraine holds an adjacent city on high ground.

Russia is pulling out T-64s from storage, and more importantly, gutting their military academies to generate enough troops to fight. They'll be feeling the effects of this for years.

In any case I've written to my MP to send more artillery to Ukraine, and hope they win.

[kallend 915]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

 

How’s this prediction going for you?

"Prediction is always difficult, especially about the future"; Neils Bohr.

[Phil1111 438]

3 hours ago, olofscience said:

Not very good.

But then again, Russia has completely retreated from Kyiv, Ukraine is counterattacking in Kherson and Russia is bogged down fighting for a strategically insignificant city in Donbas while Ukraine holds an adjacent city on high ground.

Russia is pulling out T-64s from storage, and more importantly, gutting their military academies to generate enough troops to fight. They'll be feeling the effects of this for years.

In any case I've written to my MP to send more artillery to Ukraine, and hope they win.

Russians are being fed into a Ukrainian sausage grinder. Perhaps 28,000 dead in 109 days, or about 250 a day.  Russia is still generating about a billion a day in revenue from oil and gas.

Ukrainians are definitely short of artillery ammunition. When shooting tasks are sent to Ukrainian guns. Its only a couple shells each time and drones from the "successful" missions show lots of targets left over.

But Ukraine is holding ground and Russia is having problems. T-64s like you say. So no thermal, no fire on the move capability and likely very unreliable. Recruitment is now 18 years old -60 and contracts as short as four months. So here is your Kalashnikov and off to the front you go. Training, nobody needs no stinking training.

Putin is doing everything possible to avoid paying out death benefits. All to keep the ruble propped up. Russia reduced interest rates this week. So its working.

[wolfriverjoe 774]

5 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Russians are being fed into a Ukrainian sausage grinder. Perhaps 28,000 dead in 109 days, or about 250 a day.  Russia is still generating about a billion a day in revenue from oil and gas.

Ukrainians are definitely short of artillery ammunition. When shooting tasks are sent to Ukrainian guns. Its only a couple shells each time and drones from the "successful" missions show lots of targets left over.

But Ukraine is holding ground and Russia is having problems. T-64s like you say. So no thermal, no fire on the move capability and likely very unreliable. Recruitment is now 18 years old -60 and contracts as short as four months. So here is your Kalashnikov and off to the front you go. Training, nobody needs no stinking training.

Putin is doing everything possible to avoid paying out death benefits. All to keep the ruble propped up. Russia reduced interest rates this week. So its working.

From "Enemy at the Gates" about Stalingrad:
 

 

[Phil1111 438]

49 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

From "Enemy at the Gates" about Stalingrad:
 

 

So you're saying nothing much in Russia has changed in 80 years. Life is still cheap?

[JoeWeber 1,197]

Excellent news! Merrick Garland traveled to Ukraine on a mission of Justice. 

"The Justice Department said Garland announced the launch of a "War Crimes Accountability Team" that will be responsible for overseeing the administration's work to hold people accountable for war crimes in Ukraine. Garland named Eli Rosenbaum, a 36-year veteran of DOJ, to lead the team."

"There is no hiding place for war criminals. The U.S. Justice Department will pursue every avenue of accountability for those who commit war crimes and other atrocities in Ukraine," Garland said in a statement."

Well, thank the currently popular deity for that. We can't have anyone in other countries not being held accountable for their heinous crimes against humanity.

[ryoder 725]

23 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Excellent news! Merrick Garland traveled to Ukraine on a mission of Justice. 

"The Justice Department said Garland announced the launch of a "War Crimes Accountability Team" that will be responsible for overseeing the administration's work to hold people accountable for war crimes in Ukraine. Garland named Eli Rosenbaum, a 36-year veteran of DOJ, to lead the team."

"There is no hiding place for war criminals. The U.S. Justice Department will pursue every avenue of accountability for those who commit war crimes and other atrocities in Ukraine," Garland said in a statement."

Well, thank the currently popular deity for that. We can't have anyone in other countries not being held accountable for their heinous crimes against humanity.

Why the hell is he wasting time in Ukraine instead of prosecuting the Trump crime mob?

[JoeWeber 1,197]

1 minute ago, ryoder said:

Why the hell is he wasting time in Ukraine instead of prosecuting the Trump crime mob?

Simple: we liberals are a bunch of fuck-ups on a never ending quest to spread our sense of good. No matter if a bus is coming fast, there is always time to stop and pick-up a piece of litter.

[ryoder 725]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Simple: we liberals are a bunch of fuck-ups on a never ending quest to spread our sense of good. No matter if a bus is coming fast, there is always time to stop and pick-up a piece of litter.

Ukraine needs arms, not prosecutors. If Garland doesn't want to do his job here, then he needs to be replaced by someone who is willing to do the job.

[JoeWeber 1,197]

2 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Ukraine needs arms, not prosecutors. If Garland doesn't want to do his job here, then he needs to be replaced by someone who is willing to do the job.

Now it is too late to replace him without completely delegitimizing the process. Biden fucked up by not making sure the DOJ was staffed with the right people from day one. I remain hopeful but that's only my liberal DNA acting up. Odd's are we'll get our asses kicked again.

[riggerrob 284]

I find it amusing when North Americans try to impose North American policing standards or Geneva Convention notions of polite behavior on Third World countries.

Russian Army attitudes towards warfare have always been different than Western European norms. The Russian Army willing accepts hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers dying to achieve an objective ... casualties that horrify Western Europeans. Genocide is still common in slavic - and cultures farther east.

For example, Canadian soldiers fighting in Afghanistan were harshly criticized - back home - because their dark sense of humor offended a delicate Canadian Army chaplain. You need that dark sense of humor to survive the horrors of terrorist battlefields. You also need to hire chaplains with tougher senses of humor ... senses of humor that more closely match their congregations.

Some of those Canadian political/legal wranglings became farcical. For example, paying to ship an entire court halfway around the world to visit the scene of the crime - in Afghanistan - years after the alleged crime was committed (Captain Robert Semrau (sp?).

[JoeWeber 1,197]

6 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

I find it amusing when North Americans try to impose North American policing standards or Geneva Convention notions of polite behavior on Third World countries.

Russian Army attitudes towards warfare have always been different than Western European norms. The Russian Army willing accepts hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers dying to achieve an objective ... casualties that horrify Western Europeans. Genocide is still common in slavic - and cultures farther east.

For example, Canadian soldiers fighting in Afghanistan were harshly criticized - back home - because their dark sense of humor offended a delicate Canadian Army chaplain. You need that dark sense of humor to survive the horrors of terrorist battlefields. You also need to hire chaplains with tougher senses of humor ... senses of humor that more closely match their congregations.

Some of those Canadian political/legal wranglings became farcical. For example, paying to ship an entire court halfway around the world to visit the scene of the crime - in Afghanistan - years after the alleged crime was committed (Captain Robert Semrau (sp?).

The meek are not going to inherit the earth or anything else besides a plot of sharecroppers land outside the city walls. No matter our delicate sensibilities, it is still a dangerous, fractured world filled with actors who will do anything to get or retain power. If Trump, January 6 and the right wing desire to rule permanently isn't enough to wake us up, it's over.

[Phil1111 438]

35 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

I find it amusing when North Americans try to impose North American policing standards or Geneva Convention notions of polite behavior on Third World countries.

Russian Army attitudes towards warfare have always been different than Western European norms. The Russian Army willing accepts hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers dying to achieve an objective ... casualties that horrify Western Europeans. Genocide is still common in slavic - and cultures farther east....

Thats not entirely true. The Committee of Soldiers' Mothers, a Russian group of service members mothers. Was a powerful force in ending the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. As casualties mount in Ukraine they will be a strong voice for service members.

Its true that the lack of a free objective press. Together with oppression of opposition to any war. Leads to the acceptance of somewhat cheaper lives.

As a side note: "Ever since Russia's wars in Chechnya, the country has allegedly attempted to extort some of its own soldiers for money, according to a Russian human rights activist.

Valentina Melnikova, the executive secretary of the Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia, told the independent news site Meduza in an interview that her organization has received complaints of Russian soldiers being asked to pay for weapons and other equipment they lost in battle. The Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia advocates for soldiers' rights and attempts to help servicemen who have been hit with these alleged extortion attempts."

Edited June 22 by Phil1111

[jakee 603]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Well, thank the currently popular deity for that. We can't have anyone in other countries not being held accountable for their heinous crimes against humanity.

Hah! Yes, good point. The International Criminal Court is indeed very useful for holding accountable, errm, those other people from other countries.

 

Russian propaganda goldmine right there.

Edited June 22 by jakee

[Phil1111 438]

6 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Excellent news! Merrick Garland traveled to Ukraine on a mission of Justice. 

"The Justice Department said Garland announced the launch of a "War Crimes Accountability Team" that will be responsible for overseeing the administration's work to hold people accountable for war crimes in Ukraine. Garland named Eli Rosenbaum, a 36-year veteran of DOJ, to lead the team."

"There is no hiding place for war criminals. The U.S. Justice Department will pursue every avenue of accountability for those who commit war crimes and other atrocities in Ukraine," Garland said in a statement."

Well, thank the currently popular deity for that. We can't have anyone in other countries not being held accountable for their heinous crimes against humanity.

Meanwhile its all kissy kissy for MBS. On a trip to Turkey to spread some filthy Saudi oil money around now. Soon to welcome Biden as Turkey and the US have all forgotten a chopped up journalist. But heck if Putin can kill journalists by the dozen. Kill Ukrainians by the tens of thousands. There is likely hope for him too. If the US re-elects trump probably a rose garden reception for MBS and Putin.

[JoeWeber 1,197]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Meanwhile its all kissy kissy for MBS. On a trip to Turkey to spread some filthy Saudi oil money around now. Soon to welcome Biden as Turkey and the US have all forgotten a chopped up journalist. But heck if Putin can kill journalists by the dozen. Kill Ukrainians by the tens of thousands. There is likely hope for him too. If the US re-elects trump probably a rose garden reception for MBS and Putin.

It's not clear that Kashoggi didn't chop up himself after climbing into the barrel of acid. Obviously, it must be determined how he was able to secure the lid afterwards. But, as you know, MBS is a stand up guy so if he say's it's a mystery that's good enough for me. 

[riggerrob 284]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:55 AM, Phil1111 said:

Thats not entirely true. The Committee of Soldiers' Mothers, a Russian group of service members mothers. Was a powerful force in ending the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. As casualties mount in Ukraine they will be a strong voice for service members.

Its true that the lack of a free objective press. Together with oppression of opposition to any war. Leads to the acceptance of somewhat cheaper lives.

As a side note: "Ever since Russia's wars in Chechnya, the country has allegedly attempted to extort some of its own soldiers for money, according to a Russian human rights activist.

Valentina Melnikova, the executive secretary of the Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia, told the independent news site Meduza in an interview that her organization has received complaints of Russian soldiers being asked to pay for weapons and other equipment they lost in battle. The Union of Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia advocates for soldiers' rights and attempts to help servicemen who have been hit with these alleged extortion attempts."

It is standard practice for Canadian soldiers to pay for lost equipment ... in peacetime. When I left the Canadian Army Reserve I had to pay out my own pocket for some missing uniforms.

[Phil1111 438]

1 minute ago, riggerrob said:

It is standard practice for Canadian soldiers to pay for lost equipment ... in peacetime. When I left the Canadian Army Reserve I had to pay out my own pocket for some missing uniforms.

Good thing you didn't lose a CF-104. You'd still be paying for it.

[riggerrob 284]

I helped package up the last few CF-104 that the CAF sent to Turkey near the end of the Cold War. One of my (technician) colleagues had previously served in the Canadian Army's United Nations Mission to Cyprus. He had a low opinion of Turks, so used to spray-paint a Greek flag inside very panel before he screwed it shut. Years later, Turkish technicians were still finding little Greek flags inside their second-hand CF-104s.

Hah!

Hah!

[yoink 308]

On 6/22/2022 at 8:14 AM, JoeWeber said:

 Odd's are we'll get our asses kicked again.

That’s the smart money bet, and this time the bad guys k ow what works and what doesn’t.

I honestly think there’s a chance that the next presidency might be the end of the US as a legitimate democracy.

Edited June 24 by yoink

[wolfriverjoe 774]

6 hours ago, yoink said:

That’s the smart money bet, and this time the bad guys k ow what works and what doesn’t.

I honestly think there’s a chance that the next presidency might be the end of the US as a legitimate democracy.

In most cases, the historians decide much later when the 'end' actually happened.

In most cases, the 'end' happened without the people who were actually there realizing it.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if historians in the future declare that the 'end of American democracy' happened at some point prior to our present.

When McConnel abdicated his duty to hold hearings for Garland's SC appointment is one possibility.
There are others.

[wmw999 1,226]

39 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

In most cases, the historians decide much later when the 'end' actually happened.

In most cases, the 'end' happened without the people who were actually there realizing it.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if historians in the future declare that the 'end of American democracy' happened at some point prior to our present.

When McConnel abdicated his duty to hold hearings for Garland's SC appointment is one possibility.
There are others.

They say that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think some folks are OK with being corrupted...

That said, we've been too static, and static systems become easier to game. Maybe it is time for a good revolution.

Wendy P.

[wolfriverjoe 774]

3 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

They say that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think some folks are OK with being corrupted...

That said, we've been too static, and static systems become easier to game. Maybe it is time for a good revolution.

Wendy P.

Well, Jefferson is quoted as saying "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants."

It comes from a letter to the son of John Adams.

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/tree-liberty-quotation

 

It has a very interesting and insightful sentence about the idea of the 'big lie'.

 

Quote

Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them,

 

[Phil1111 438]

34 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

They say that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think some folks are OK with being corrupted...

That said, we've been too static, and static systems become easier to game. Maybe it is time for a good revolution.

Wendy P.

Ron?...Ron?