Ukraine

[gowlerk 1,194]

3 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

I'd be interested to know what it takes to kick Turkey out. It's a Muslim majority nation whose values rarely align with the rest of NATO, no?

Their values did align more at one time. Not as much today. But the geography has not changed. They need NATO more than their leader wants to admit.

Edited May 15 by gowlerk

[BillyVance 32]

Just now, gowlerk said:

They need NATO more than their leader wants to admit.

Curious to understand why? 

[Phil1111 437]

6 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

I'd be interested to know what it takes to kick Turkey out. It's a Muslim majority nation whose values rarely align with the rest of NATO, no?

That i don't know but its no longer a real democracy. The rise and fall of liberal democracy in Turkey: Implications for the West

Scores poor on the rule of law.

Gutted civil and political liberties.

IMO if Turkey invoked article five there may be allot of NATO countries that call in sick.

Edited May 15 by Phil1111

[BillyVance 32]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

That i don't know but its no longer a real democracy. The rise and fall of liberal democracy in Turkey: Implications for the West

Scores poor on the rule of law.

Gutted civil and political liberties.

Yeah they have increasingly become more of a hard line government, not unlike many of the middle east countries. 

Refresh my memory on why NATO brought them in, anybody? Was it so we could set up nuke launch bases there? 

[JoeWeber 1,189]

1 minute ago, BillyVance said:

I'd be interested to know what it takes to kick Turkey out. It's a Muslim majority nation whose values rarely align with the rest of NATO, no?

Geopolitics can be confusing. Grab a map. The Bosphorus connects the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles connects the Sea of Marmara to the Aegean Sea. Both run through Turkey. That, and to put it mildly, most NATO countries have divergent interests at some level. It is simply a marriage of convenience not a religious litmus test.

[BillyVance 32]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Geopolitics can be confusing. Grab a map. The Bosphorus connects the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles connects the Sea of Marmara to the Aegean Sea. Both run through Turkey. That, and to put it mildly, most NATO countries have divergent interests at some level. It is simply a marriage of convenience not a religious litmus test.

I agree with that. Turkey is also preventing Russia from sending warships through the bosphorus strait to aid the war effort in Ukraine, so there's that. 

[JoeWeber 1,189]

Just now, BillyVance said:

I agree with that. Turkey is also preventing Russia from sending warships through the bosphorus strait to aid the war effort in Ukraine, so there's that. 

Exactly. There are treaties governing use, of course. However, while an easement to pass through a property is good, having your kissing cousin own the land is much better.

[Phil1111 437]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Geopolitics can be confusing. Grab a map. The Bosphorus connects the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles connects the Sea of Marmara to the Aegean Sea. Both run through Turkey. That, and to put it mildly, most NATO countries have divergent interests at some level. It is simply a marriage of convenience not a religious litmus test.

This and it was viewed as a bridge to the Islamic world in a democratic, secular country. Turkey used to follow the ideals of Ataturk whereby the state operated independently of Islamic teachings. With Erdogan thats  out the door.

[Phil1111 437]

4 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

I agree with that. Turkey is also preventing Russia from sending warships through the bosphorus strait to aid the war effort in Ukraine, so there's that. 

Its also shipping almost every Bayraktar TB2 drone built to Ukraine. About one a day. The company is owned by a relative of Erdogans.

[gowlerk 1,194]

29 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

Curious to understand why? 

Because they are in a tough neighborhood with Russia close by.

[The Hundredth Monkey 1]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

That’s not the word you were looking for.

That doesn’t mean anything.

it means nothing to you, because you are so focused on character assassination, that you forgot to even google the term.

It refers to a specific experiment that discovered an innate telepathic trait in mammals.

But you are probably an nihilistic atheist that replaces the spiritual void with a god complex.

Try actually knowing what you are talking about next..





 

[The Hundredth Monkey 1]

50 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Its also shipping almost every Bayraktar TB2 drone built to Ukraine. About one a day. The company is owned by a relative of Erdogans.

Because Turkey is the tap to Arab oil for Europe, while Ukraine is European tap to Russian Oil.

the whole 9/11 response and subsequent eugenics slaughter house, was only ever about supplying energy to Europe without using boats...

That simple.

You people are a bit slow on the program no?

[The Hundredth Monkey 1]

1 hour ago, yoink said:

I agree 100%

 

But those countries don't hold the key to Arab oil, and Turkey does.

remember when Turkey was pinching Syria's oil, while all you people were blaming Assad for the CIA false flag chemical attacks using chlorine gas, the day the weapons inspectors that he invited arrived?

A full gaslighting exercise, not unlike the time Ukraine were shelling the Donbass, when the investigation team went to body count the MH17 crash site.?

That trial is on in the Hague at present BTW, maybe you should all be blaming Putin for shooting down a civilian airliner, by proxy...?

Because billions of dollars and about 5 years were invested in ensuring everyone knew damned well that was the situation, until about February this year...

then it became the elephant in the room..

wonder why?

The Hunter becomes the hunted... Welcome to The Machine! (bitchute.com)



 

[Phil1111 437]

1 hour ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

Because Turkey is the tap to Arab oil for Europe, while Ukraine is European tap to Russian Oil.

the whole 9/11 response and subsequent eugenics slaughter house, was only ever about supplying energy to Europe without using boats...

That simple.

You people are a bit slow on the program no?

I realize the Putin has starved Russian education to pay for yachts. Putin has eliminated all real news services to conceal his kleptocracy. That Putin keeps gas revenues for himself and his friends. But everyone knows that you're geographically and politically wrong.

"With the TurkStream pipeline inaugurated, a southern export route to Europe has been opened for gas to travel from Russia. A high-profile ceremony on the occasion took place in Istanbul on Jan. 8, 2020, and was attended by the leaders of Turkey, Russia, Bulgaria and Serbia ...The TurkStream and TANAP-TAP pipelines pass through Turkey, an emerging regional energy hub...The TurkStream pipeline's launch is anticipated to increase the stability of Russian gas exports to Europe"

Off to the Ukrainian front for you. You failed both gaslighting and propaganda 101.

Five years from now "us people"will be free of Russian energy. Ukraine will be a NATO member, a EU member, and Belarus will still be sucking money from Russia. Russia will be sucking Xi's member because he's the only buyer around. Because of that Russia will be getting kopeks on the rouble for its energy.

Edited May 15 by Phil1111

[wolfriverjoe 770]

21 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

... Russia will be sucking Xi's member because he's the only buyer around. Because of that Russia will be getting kopeks on the rouble for its energy.

And after the Ukrainian debacle, China will be free to invade Siberia if and when they want to. 
Zillions of acres of undeveloped land (kinda nice for those billions of people).
Natural resources that are virtually untapped.

All ripe for the picking and the Russian army won't be able to do diddly about it.

[Phil1111 437]

14 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And after the Ukrainian debacle, China will be free to invade Siberia if and when they want to. 
Zillions of acres of undeveloped land (kinda nice for those billions of people).
Natural resources that are virtually untapped.

All ripe for the picking and the Russian army won't be able to do diddly about it.

Russia loves leaders with short term ideals. Stalin wanted all of the troublesome republics. It looked good for a greater Soviet empire. Russia itself subsidized all of its satellite states, subsidized Cuba, etc. Just as it subsidizes Belarus today. Basically Russia only has friends that it buys with energy subsidies.

More likely Putin will sell Siberia to China just as Tsar Alexander II did with Alaska. It will need money for its ageing population. To pay for its wars, reparations and endless subsidies of its "ally states".

Russia the best collection of vassal states that roubles can buy.

[wolfriverjoe 770]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

...More likely Putin will sell Siberia to China just as Tsar Alexander II did with Alaska...

Why would China buy it when they can just take it?

Putin set the precedent by invading Ukraine.
Putin showed quite clearly the impotence of the Russian army.

I have a funny feeling the rest of the world would wag their fingers, make some useless 'declarations' about how naughty China was, and then privately laugh their asses off.

[BillyVance 32]

4 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Russia loves leaders with short term ideals. Stalin wanted all of the troublesome republics. It looked good for a greater Soviet empire. Russia itself subsidized all of its satellite states, subsidized Cuba, etc. Just as it subsidizes Belarus today. Basically Russia only has friends that it buys with energy subsidies.

More likely Putin will sell Siberia to China just as Tsar Alexander II did with Alaska. It will need money for its ageing population. To pay for its wars, reparations and endless subsidies of its "ally states".

Russia the best collection of vassal states that roubles can buy.

I can't see Russia, well under Putin anyway, selling any of their property to China or anybody else. China's military is still worlds behind the US in technology but they are starting to catch up. If China wanted to take Siberia, they might as well take Mongolia first. 

[Phil1111 437]

3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Why would China buy it when they can just take it?

Putin set the precedent by invading Ukraine.
Putin showed quite clearly the impotence of the Russian army.

I have a funny feeling the rest of the world would wag their fingers, make some useless 'declarations' about how naughty China was, and then privately laugh their asses off.

You're right. Russia's vaunted T-14 tanks are so bad they won't even send them into combat. China knows every Russian secret and technology. The Chinese know how inept, useless Russian hardware and leadership is.

China already knows everything about Russian leadership because they all use Chinese cell phones. Now that sanctions are in effect Russian chip production will fall to zero.

Do you think that Moscow, Saint Petersburg, etc. will have to revert to using outhouses instead of indoor plumbing?

[JerryBaumchen 611]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Why would China buy it when they can just take it?

Putin set the precedent by invading Ukraine.
Putin showed quite clearly the impotence of the Russian army.

I have a funny feeling the rest of the world would wag their fingers, make some useless 'declarations' about how naughty China was, and then privately laugh their asses off.

Hi Joe,

^^^^ This.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 1,189]

2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

^^^^ This.

Jerry Baumchen

Jerry,

Don't you find it ironic that it's we snowflake liberals who are all a giggle and agog whenever we hear about Ukraine kicking some impertinent Russian ass? And you don't hear about Democrats holding up military support to Ukraine, either.  Someone on twitter took notice, too.

[Phil1111 437]

12 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Jerry,

Don't you find it ironic that it's we snowflake liberals who are all a giggle and agog whenever we hear about Ukraine kicking some impertinent Russian ass? And you don't hear about Democrats holding up military support to Ukraine, either.  Someone on twitter took notice, too.

Thats quite amusing. But I have to give McConnell credit today. He stated that any settlement is up to Ukraine. That he and the US are on board till the end in helping Ukraine kick Putin ass.

Ukrainian arty men are getting very very good lately. I don't know if its NATO howitzers, practice or both. But they seem to be able to walk shells up and down a shelterbelt no more than 25 yards wide.

[JoeWeber 1,189]

1 minute ago, Phil1111 said:

Thats quite amusing. But I have to give McConnell credit today. He stated that any settlement is up to Ukraine. That he and the US are on board till the end in helping Ukraine kick Putin ass.

Ukrainian arty men are getting very very good lately. I don't know if its NATO howitzers, practice or both. But they seem to be able to walk shells up and down a shelterbelt no more than 25 yards wide.

For sure it's American donated M777's. That's what they used to destroy two BTG's attempting to cross the Donets.

[brenthutch 316]

7 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

Because Turkey is the tap to Arab oil for Europe, while Ukraine is European tap to Russian Oil.

the whole 9/11 response and subsequent eugenics slaughter house, was only ever about supplying energy to Europe without using boats...

That simple.

You people are a bit slow on the program no?

Why are drug addled gay Nazis destroying the Russian military?  On their way back from a drug fulled gay orgy rave a few hung over Ukrainians did this to a Russian battalion tactical group  (Using only their dimming glow sticks)

Edited May 16 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 1,189]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Why are drug addled gay Nazis destroying the Russian military?  On their way back from a drug fulled gay orgy rave a few hung over Ukrainians did this to a Russian combat battalion. (Using only their dimming glow sticks)

Apparently, those sissies destroyed 2 Battalion Tactical Groups, albeit understrength units but then they all are it seems. Sunk their boats and took out the engineer units, too.