Phil1111 1,111 #1251 May 15, 2022 1 minute ago, JoeWeber said: Geopolitics can be confusing. Grab a map. The Bosphorus connects the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles connects the Sea of Marmara to the Aegean Sea. Both run through Turkey. That, and to put it mildly, most NATO countries have divergent interests at some level. It is simply a marriage of convenience not a religious litmus test. This and it was viewed as a bridge to the Islamic world in a democratic, secular country. Turkey used to follow the ideals of Ataturk whereby the state operated independently of Islamic teachings. With Erdogan thats out the door. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,111 #1252 May 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, BillyVance said: I agree with that. Turkey is also preventing Russia from sending warships through the bosphorus strait to aid the war effort in Ukraine, so there's that. Its also shipping almost every Bayraktar TB2 drone built to Ukraine. About one a day. The company is owned by a relative of Erdogans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,143 #1253 May 15, 2022 29 minutes ago, BillyVance said: Curious to understand why? Because they are in a tough neighborhood with Russia close by. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,111 #1254 May 15, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Hundredth Monkey said: Because Turkey is the tap to Arab oil for Europe, while Ukraine is European tap to Russian Oil. the whole 9/11 response and subsequent eugenics slaughter house, was only ever about supplying energy to Europe without using boats... That simple. You people are a bit slow on the program no? I realize the Putin has starved Russian education to pay for yachts. Putin has eliminated all real news services to conceal his kleptocracy. That Putin keeps gas revenues for himself and his friends. But everyone knows that you're geographically and politically wrong. "With the TurkStream pipeline inaugurated, a southern export route to Europe has been opened for gas to travel from Russia. A high-profile ceremony on the occasion took place in Istanbul on Jan. 8, 2020, and was attended by the leaders of Turkey, Russia, Bulgaria and Serbia ...The TurkStream and TANAP-TAP pipelines pass through Turkey, an emerging regional energy hub...The TurkStream pipeline's launch is anticipated to increase the stability of Russian gas exports to Europe" Off to the Ukrainian front for you. You failed both gaslighting and propaganda 101. Five years from now "us people"will be free of Russian energy. Ukraine will be a NATO member, a EU member, and Belarus will still be sucking money from Russia. Russia will be sucking Xi's member because he's the only buyer around. Because of that Russia will be getting kopeks on the rouble for its energy. Edited May 15, 2022 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,485 #1255 May 15, 2022 21 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: ... Russia will be sucking Xi's member because he's the only buyer around. Because of that Russia will be getting kopeks on the rouble for its energy. And after the Ukrainian debacle, China will be free to invade Siberia if and when they want to. Zillions of acres of undeveloped land (kinda nice for those billions of people). Natural resources that are virtually untapped. All ripe for the picking and the Russian army won't be able to do diddly about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,111 #1256 May 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: And after the Ukrainian debacle, China will be free to invade Siberia if and when they want to. Zillions of acres of undeveloped land (kinda nice for those billions of people). Natural resources that are virtually untapped. All ripe for the picking and the Russian army won't be able to do diddly about it. Russia loves leaders with short term ideals. Stalin wanted all of the troublesome republics. It looked good for a greater Soviet empire. Russia itself subsidized all of its satellite states, subsidized Cuba, etc. Just as it subsidizes Belarus today. Basically Russia only has friends that it buys with energy subsidies. More likely Putin will sell Siberia to China just as Tsar Alexander II did with Alaska. It will need money for its ageing population. To pay for its wars, reparations and endless subsidies of its "ally states". Russia the best collection of vassal states that roubles can buy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,485 #1257 May 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Phil1111 said: ...More likely Putin will sell Siberia to China just as Tsar Alexander II did with Alaska... Why would China buy it when they can just take it? Putin set the precedent by invading Ukraine. Putin showed quite clearly the impotence of the Russian army. I have a funny feeling the rest of the world would wag their fingers, make some useless 'declarations' about how naughty China was, and then privately laugh their asses off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #1258 May 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: Russia loves leaders with short term ideals. Stalin wanted all of the troublesome republics. It looked good for a greater Soviet empire. Russia itself subsidized all of its satellite states, subsidized Cuba, etc. Just as it subsidizes Belarus today. Basically Russia only has friends that it buys with energy subsidies. More likely Putin will sell Siberia to China just as Tsar Alexander II did with Alaska. It will need money for its ageing population. To pay for its wars, reparations and endless subsidies of its "ally states". Russia the best collection of vassal states that roubles can buy. I can't see Russia, well under Putin anyway, selling any of their property to China or anybody else. China's military is still worlds behind the US in technology but they are starting to catch up. If China wanted to take Siberia, they might as well take Mongolia first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,111 #1259 May 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: Why would China buy it when they can just take it? Putin set the precedent by invading Ukraine. Putin showed quite clearly the impotence of the Russian army. I have a funny feeling the rest of the world would wag their fingers, make some useless 'declarations' about how naughty China was, and then privately laugh their asses off. You're right. Russia's vaunted T-14 tanks are so bad they won't even send them into combat. China knows every Russian secret and technology. The Chinese know how inept, useless Russian hardware and leadership is. China already knows everything about Russian leadership because they all use Chinese cell phones. Now that sanctions are in effect Russian chip production will fall to zero. Do you think that Moscow, Saint Petersburg, etc. will have to revert to using outhouses instead of indoor plumbing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,322 #1260 May 15, 2022 2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said: Why would China buy it when they can just take it? Putin set the precedent by invading Ukraine.Putin showed quite clearly the impotence of the Russian army. I have a funny feeling the rest of the world would wag their fingers, make some useless 'declarations' about how naughty China was, and then privately laugh their asses off. Hi Joe, ^^^^ This. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,645 #1261 May 16, 2022 2 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Joe, ^^^^ This. Jerry Baumchen Jerry, Don't you find it ironic that it's we snowflake liberals who are all a giggle and agog whenever we hear about Ukraine kicking some impertinent Russian ass? And you don't hear about Democrats holding up military support to Ukraine, either. Someone on twitter took notice, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,111 #1262 May 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: Jerry, Don't you find it ironic that it's we snowflake liberals who are all a giggle and agog whenever we hear about Ukraine kicking some impertinent Russian ass? And you don't hear about Democrats holding up military support to Ukraine, either. Someone on twitter took notice, too. Thats quite amusing. But I have to give McConnell credit today. He stated that any settlement is up to Ukraine. That he and the US are on board till the end in helping Ukraine kick Putin ass. Ukrainian arty men are getting very very good lately. I don't know if its NATO howitzers, practice or both. But they seem to be able to walk shells up and down a shelterbelt no more than 25 yards wide. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,645 #1263 May 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Phil1111 said: Thats quite amusing. But I have to give McConnell credit today. He stated that any settlement is up to Ukraine. That he and the US are on board till the end in helping Ukraine kick Putin ass. Ukrainian arty men are getting very very good lately. I don't know if its NATO howitzers, practice or both. But they seem to be able to walk shells up and down a shelterbelt no more than 25 yards wide. For sure it's American donated M777's. That's what they used to destroy two BTG's attempting to cross the Donets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 427 #1264 May 16, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said: Because Turkey is the tap to Arab oil for Europe, while Ukraine is European tap to Russian Oil. the whole 9/11 response and subsequent eugenics slaughter house, was only ever about supplying energy to Europe without using boats... That simple. You people are a bit slow on the program no? Why are drug addled gay Nazis destroying the Russian military? On their way back from a drug fulled gay orgy rave a few hung over Ukrainians did this to a Russian battalion tactical group (Using only their dimming glow sticks) Edited May 16, 2022 by brenthutch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,645 #1265 May 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Why are drug addled gay Nazis destroying the Russian military? On their way back from a drug fulled gay orgy rave a few hung over Ukrainians did this to a Russian combat battalion. (Using only their dimming glow sticks) Apparently, those sissies destroyed 2 Battalion Tactical Groups, albeit understrength units but then they all are it seems. Sunk their boats and took out the engineer units, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 467 #1266 May 16, 2022 13 hours ago, BillyVance said: Refresh my memory on why NATO brought them in, anybody? Turkey joined NATO in 1952, so it's not really living memory anymore why they joined. But this NATO article has some explanation: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_191048.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,645 #1267 May 16, 2022 33 minutes ago, olofscience said: Turkey joined NATO in 1952, so it's not really living memory anymore why they joined. But this NATO article has some explanation: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_191048.htm The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #1268 May 16, 2022 4 hours ago, olofscience said: Turkey joined NATO in 1952, so it's not really living memory anymore why they joined. But this NATO article has some explanation: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_191048.htm Yeah, a result of the Cold War is what I'm thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 230 #1269 May 16, 2022 22 hours ago, Erroll said: Common sense appears to elude you. Maybe "a 'lude" in the sense of a "disco biscuit? Likely one of those homo phones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,485 #1270 May 16, 2022 10 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Apparently, those sissies destroyed 2 Battalion Tactical Groups, albeit understrength units but then they all are it seems. Sunk their boats and took out the engineer units, too. Bolding mine. There have been a few stories about this. Many of them point out (correctly) that losing a bunch of APCs isn't a big deal for the Russians. They've got a zillion of them (or they used to anyway). But engineers are specialists. Their equipment is specialized too. Losing the people trained to put in bridges and the equipment, both the install stuff and the bridges themselves, is a bigger deal than most realize. That stuff and that knowledge isn't going to be replaced easily, quickly or cheaply. I especially love the Twitter thread posted before that told how the Ukrainian engineers scouted out the river, picked out the most likely spot to put a bridge, and were ready & waiting for the Russians to show up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 615 #1271 May 16, 2022 22 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said: it means nothing to you, because you are so focused on character assassination, that you forgot to even google the term. It refers to a specific experiment that discovered an innate telepathic trait in mammals. But you are probably an nihilistic atheist that replaces the spiritual void with a god complex. Try actually knowing what you are talking about next.. Where is the "MASKirovka" emoji when you need it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,322 #1272 May 16, 2022 15 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Jerry, Don't you find it ironic that it's we snowflake liberals who are all a giggle and agog whenever we hear about Ukraine kicking some impertinent Russian ass? And you don't hear about Democrats holding up military support to Ukraine, either. Someone on twitter took notice, too. Hi Joe, I never get all a giggle and agog when it comes to war. What I do find ironic is how poor of a military the Russians have. Looks me that the all-powerful Russian bear has few teeth. And, everyone was so afraid of starting WW III. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,645 #1273 May 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Jo I never get all a giggle and agog when it comes to war. What I do find ironic is how poor of a military the Russians have. Looks me that the all-powerful Russian bear has few teeth. And, everyone was so afraid of starting WW III. Jerry Baumchen I still am. I never thought of WWIII as a land war. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,322 #1274 May 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: I still am. I never thought of WWIII as a land war. Hi Joe, Nor do I. The US never used any nuke in the Korean War or the Vietnam War. I do not believe that if we were to give Ukraine any weapons that they would want, would WW III be the result. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,645 #1275 May 16, 2022 1 minute ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Joe, Nor do I. The US never used any nuke in the Korean War or the Vietnam War. I do not believe that if we were to give Ukraine any weapons that they would want, would WW III be the result. Jerry Baumchen I don't know about that. Crazy people do crazy things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites