JoeWeber 2,617 #1176 May 12, 2022 40 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: As a side note, the newest, most expensive, 'bestest' Russian tank, the T-90 fell victim to a Javelin. Actually, the best Russian tank at the moment, until the Burlak is developed, is the T-14 Armata. It truly is a jewel of a main battle tank with many advantages including an unmanned turret, a protective armored compartment for the crew, advanced targeting, a superior explosive armor defense system, a 1500HP engine etc. They've been showing it off at parades since 2015 and planned serious production starting 2018. But at USD $4 million a copy there was, apparently, too much money to be skimmed so only some (20-40?) have been built. Had they actually built several hundred that could have been deployed early things might have turned out very differently. Spasiba, Russian Oligarchs. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,099 #1177 May 12, 2022 10 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Actually, the best Russian tank at the moment,...early things might have turned out very differently. Spasiba, Russian Oligarchs. Hey Amels, Benetti, Feadship, etc. cost money. The underlings need their play-toys. Oh silly me, trying to tell you how much superyachts cost! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 423 #1178 May 12, 2022 On 5/11/2022 at 4:56 AM, The Hundredth Monkey said: That's a loaded question but hell yeah. Zelensky is a degenerate Moron, he is an actor and nothing less. English is obviously not your first language. BTW got any Sims cards? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,581 #1179 May 12, 2022 A set of tweets from a Ukrainian engineer outlining how they predicted where the Russians would attempt to cross, and had lookouts waiting to call in the alert. The Russians chose the exact location they predicted: https://twitter.com/kms_d4k/status/1524506104192974849 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,617 #1180 May 12, 2022 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: English is obviously not your first language. BTW got any Sims cards? Be careful Brent, I think he's a troll. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 613 #1181 May 12, 2022 18 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Actually, the best Russian tank at the moment, until the Burlak is developed, is the T-14 Armata. It truly is a jewel of a main battle tank with many advantages including an unmanned turret, a protective armored compartment for the crew, advanced targeting, a superior explosive armor defense system, a 1500HP engine etc. They've been showing it off at parades since 2015 and planned serious production starting 2018. But at USD $4 million a copy there was, apparently, too much money to be skimmed so only some (20-40?) have been built. Had they actually built several hundred that could have been deployed early things might have turned out very differently. Spasiba, Russian Oligarchs. Have any T-18 Armata tanks been seen fighting in Ukraine? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,617 #1182 May 12, 2022 28 minutes ago, riggerrob said: Have any T-18 Armata tanks been seen fighting in Ukraine? T-14 did you mean? I haven’t seen any report saying so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 423 #1183 May 12, 2022 19 hours ago, JoeWeber said: Actually, the best Russian tank at the moment, until the Burlak is developed, is the T-14 Armata. It truly is a jewel of a main battle tank with many advantages including an unmanned turret, a protective armored compartment for the crew, advanced targeting, a superior explosive armor defense system, a 1500HP engine etc. They've been showing it off at parades since 2015 and planned serious production starting 2018. But at USD $4 million a copy there was, apparently, too much money to be skimmed so only some (20-40?) have been built. Had they actually built several hundred that could have been deployed early things might have turned out very differently. Ukraine would have several hundred T-14s as the thirsty Armatas would have run out of fuel much faster than the Russian T-72s that are now in Ukrainian hands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,617 #1184 May 12, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, brenthutch said: Ukraine would have several hundred T-14s as the thirsty Armatas would have run out of fuel much faster than the Russian T-72s that are now in Ukrainian hands. They claim the T-14 has a slightly better range than the Abrams and those did ok against T-72's. Edited May 12, 2022 by JoeWeber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,380 #1185 May 12, 2022 21 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: They claim the T-14 has a slightly better range than the Abrams and those did ok against T-72's. The Abrams comes with functioning logistical support - it's rarely gonna be very far from a refuel. None of the Russian models appear to include that feature, so range is a bit more important for them. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,581 #1186 May 12, 2022 I had no idea the "jack-in-the-box effect" was this spectacular: 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,099 #1187 May 13, 2022 7 hours ago, brenthutch said: English is obviously not your first language. BTW got any Sims cards? Say something nice and flattering about President Putin. He can probably hook you up with premier membership at Truth Social. Putin and trump have reciprocal social media members rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,617 #1188 May 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Phil1111 said: Hey Amels, Benetti, Feadship, etc. cost money. The underlings need their play-toys. Oh silly me, trying to tell you how much superyachts cost! Do you think I'm not racked with guilt? Some day's it's overwhelming, if you must know. For example, tonight I limited myself to an excellent bottle of wine. Good thing I'm a stoic, I guess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 613 #1189 May 13, 2022 6 hours ago, ryoder said: I had no idea the "jack-in-the-box effect" was this spectacular: Ammunition fires release spectacular amounts of energy. Similar video shows Russian T-72s, etc. being destroyed the same way in Chechnya, back during the 1990s. Chechyn rebels waited until Russian tanks entered the city of Grozny, then rebels dropped Molotov cocktails down their hatches. Trivia, the "Molotov cocktail" weapon was named after the Soviet Minister for Foreign Affairs: Vyacheslav Molotov during the 1930s and 1940s. They were first used to destroy Soviet supplied tanks during the Spanish Civil War (1936). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #1190 May 13, 2022 (found on another forum - seems about right!) So, vlad the poisoner has; Borked the already partially borked Russian economy; showed the world that soviet arms aren’t all that (India has quit contracts for more sukhois and is looking at leopards to replace its newish t90s) degraded his military, and demonstrated its inability against non crazy motivated forces; motivated non nato holdouts to join nato; and successfully motivated Europe to ditch Russian natural gas, reducing a major foreign policy lever. Well played. And this is the guy who has easily conned the american right Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,380 #1191 May 13, 2022 33 minutes ago, Stumpy said: Well played. And this is the guy who has easily conned the american right I’ll admit that I’ve had the opinion over the last decade that Putin is very good at international politics. He’s been able to bluff and bully and use force in the right ways to re-expand Russian influence. He got his way in Georgia, he got his way with Crimea, he was in almost direct opposition to western aims in Syria and he comprehensively won… and then this. It’s quite staggering how badly he has got this wrong and undone almost every gain in Russian power and security he has made in his 20 years of power. Though unfortunately that still makes it even more crucial that he ends up with some gains in resources and economic potential from this conflict. He’s not going to retreat from the Ukrainian coastline and he’s not going to retreat from the oil and gas fields no matter how costly it continues to be for their military. Defeat of the Russian army in a long, brutal and bloody conflict that will destroy huge parts of Ukraine is the only way this ends ‘well’ no matter what we think about Putin’s incompetence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 423 #1192 May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Stumpy said: Well played. And this is the guy who has easily conned the american right And that is why he annexed Crimea during the Obama administration, got blown up in Syria by Trump, and then invaded Ukraine when Biden inhabited the White House. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,380 #1193 May 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, brenthutch said: got blown up in Syria by Trump, Are you high? Quote and then invaded Ukraine when Biden inhabited the White House. And is paying the price for it. I think we can all be pretty confident that Trump wouldn't give a flying fuck if it was happening under his watch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,481 #1194 May 13, 2022 34 minutes ago, jakee said: I’ll admit that I’ve had the opinion over the last decade that Putin is very good at international politics. He’s been able to bluff and bully and use force in the right ways to re-expand Russian influence. He got his way in Georgia, he got his way with Crimea, he was in almost direct opposition to western aims in Syria and he comprehensively won… and then this. It’s quite staggering how badly he has got this wrong and undone almost every gain in Russian power and security he has made in his 20 years of power. Though unfortunately that still makes it even more crucial that he ends up with some gains in resources and economic potential from this conflict. He’s not going to retreat from the Ukrainian coastline and he’s not going to retreat from the oil and gas fields no matter how costly it continues to be for their military. Defeat of the Russian army in a long, brutal and bloody conflict that will destroy huge parts of Ukraine is the only way this ends ‘well’ no matter what we think about Putin’s incompetence. Yup. Your statement about 'bullying' is pretty accurate. Nobody with any real power has stood up to him. Ever. Until now. The stories that he had gotten completely out of touch with reality seem to be at least somewhat accurate. He's consolidated power so completely (I was way, way, waaaaaay off about the oligarchs having any real power) that he can ignore the 'truth' in favor of what he wants to hear. His toadies and sycophants just play along. So he thought that the military was 'all powerful'. That Ukrainians wanted to be back in the 'Soviet Union' again. That they'd welcome the Russian 'liberators' with open arms and be happy (sound familiar?). I have no clue how this will end, or how it can end. Putin won't quit. He can't. He's losing, and will keep 'doubling down' until he gets cornered. Which will be very dangerous. I can only hope that the military, the rest of the government or maybe the oligarchs either get together or independently depose him. And I don't have a whole lot of hope about that. Putin's spent the last 20 years consolidating power and 'removing' anyone who poses a real threat. Or even just says mean things. On 5/11/2022 at 9:02 PM, JoeWeber said: Actually, the best Russian tank at the moment, until the Burlak is developed, is the T-14 Armata. It truly is a jewel of a main battle tank with many advantages including an unmanned turret, a protective armored compartment for the crew, advanced targeting, a superior explosive armor defense system, a 1500HP engine etc. They've been showing it off at parades since 2015 and planned serious production starting 2018. But at USD $4 million a copy there was, apparently, too much money to be skimmed so only some (20-40?) have been built. Had they actually built several hundred that could have been deployed early things might have turned out very differently. Spasiba, Russian Oligarchs. I should have written 'bestest that's deployed in Ukraine'. None of the T-14s are there. And I somewhat doubt that the outcome would be a whole lot different if they were. They are still full of fuel and ammunition. They still burn. And explode. 17 minutes ago, jakee said: ... I think we can all be pretty confident that Trump wouldn't give a flying fuck if it was happening under his watch. Sure Trump would care. He'd deny aid (even humanitarian) to Ukraine. He'd try to pull the US out of NATO. He'd parrot his boss about how the Ukrainians want to be part of Russia again. He'd subsidize US companies that wanted to import Russian oil. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 423 #1195 May 13, 2022 2 hours ago, jakee said: Are you high? And is paying the price for it. I think we can all be pretty confident that Trump wouldn't give a flying fuck if it was happening under his watch. https://coffeeordie.com/wagner-group-syria-khasham/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_missile_strikes_against_Syria Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,380 #1196 May 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, brenthutch said: https://coffeeordie.com/wagner-group-syria-khasham/ “the conflict eventually evolved into a proxy war between two superpowers as Russia committed its military forces to defending the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.” Tell me who the President of Syria is today. Now tell me who achieved their geopolitical aims in Syria. Edited May 13, 2022 by jakee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,857 #1197 May 13, 2022 4 hours ago, jakee said: I’ll admit that I’ve had the opinion over the last decade that Putin is very good at international politics. He’s been able to bluff and bully and use force in the right ways to re-expand Russian influence. He got his way in Georgia, he got his way with Crimea, he was in almost direct opposition to western aims in Syria and he comprehensively won… and then this. It’s quite staggering how badly he has got this wrong and undone almost every gain in Russian power and security he has made in his 20 years of power. Though unfortunately that still makes it even more crucial that he ends up with some gains in resources and economic potential from this conflict. He’s not going to retreat from the Ukrainian coastline and he’s not going to retreat from the oil and gas fields no matter how costly it continues to be for their military. Defeat of the Russian army in a long, brutal and bloody conflict that will destroy huge parts of Ukraine is the only way this ends ‘well’ no matter what we think about Putin’s incompetence. At the risk of triggering a Godwin, isn't all this rather reminiscent of a certain German dictator in the 1930s and 1940s? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,779 #1198 May 13, 2022 4 hours ago, jakee said: Are you high? Nope. He's just good at what he does. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,581 #1199 May 13, 2022 42 minutes ago, kallend said: At the risk of triggering a Godwin, isn't all this rather reminiscent of a certain German dictator in the 1930s and 1940s? Let's see: - Invades peaceful country next door for no reason. - Claims to be protecting the people there who share his country's language. - Rounds up civilians and forcibly ships them far away. Yes, perfect duplication of what the Nazis did, and then with a straight face, tries to claim the objective is to "de-Nazify" the area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,099 #1200 May 13, 2022 5 hours ago, jakee said: Are you high? Likely bourbon. 1 hour ago, billvon said: Nope. He's just good at what he does. I think Brent is a good guy but is a prime example of how FB and FOX soften cognitive abilities. His response to jakee's statement that trump would have done nothing is a good example. While the US victory and ass kicking of Wagner mercenary criminals was entertaining. It had nothing to do with trump authorizing such an action. GOP thinking is about distraction, misinformation, illusions. Unfortunately come midterms it will be on display with full effect. Thankfully on the Ukraine issue the GOP is on board with punishing Putin. For now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites