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SkyDekker

Ukraine

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54 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

One of the reasons that victors need so many decades - to write memoirs - is that a fireplace can only burn so many embarrassing documents per hour.

Trump figured he had them outsmarted.  He decided to flush all those documents down the toilet instead!  A brilliant move!  

He then realized his mistake.  In his own words:  "We have a situation where we're looking very strongly at sinks and showers, and other elements of bathrooms . . .people are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times."  Turns out all that paper actually clogs toilets.  Who knew?

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2 hours ago, riggerrob said:

Dear jakee,

Warfare is never as simple or as pretty as portrayed in the history books.

History books are written by the victors.

One of the reasons that victors need so many decades - to write memoirs - is that a fireplace can only burn so many embarrassing documents per hour.

Hah!

Hah!

 

Do you mean it will take a while to burn the math texts in Florida?

Kidding aside. In Russia the history of Stalin was re-written several times.

Vladimir Putin’s Rewriting of History Draws on a Long Tradition of Soviet Myth-Making  March 18, 2022 Smithsonian Magazine. Putin has already drafted a historical treatise of the Great Patriotic Victory over NATO, 2022. Coming to Russian TV s a mini-series soon. Also on PPV.

Edited by Phil1111

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2 hours ago, winsor said:

Nonsense.

Exactly the same level of reasoning you always use, but at least this time you only used one word instead of disguising it with a thousand others.

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3 hours ago, winsor said:

Nonsense.

Well, according to Herodotus (who wrote what's generally considered to be the first history), it includes a study of cause and effect. Is there value in looking at the past via data that wasn't considered by previous historians? Ask the students during pre-Civil Rights South, when they were commonly taught about the War of Northern Aggression. Ask the students during the Communist era in the Soviet Union. Ask the students in North Korea (I have no idea what they study, but I'm sure it's a pretty single-focus view).

There is always value in looking at history through different lenses, particularly as the study of history reveals power structures that might have colored what was recorded. That calls into doubt the completeness of the record.

Even if you disagree with the premise, even if you think that slavery is a normal part of human social evolution, even if you think that the US was really founded by the Pilgrims, and that the stage wasn't set by all the Spaniards and others who came earlier, spreading horses and disease among other things, there's value in studying all that other stuff.

Wendy P.

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1 hour ago, jakee said:

Exactly the same level of reasoning you always use, but at least this time you only used one word instead of disguising it with a thousand others.

Did you expect anything different given what you know about his "wokeism" beliefs/attitudes?

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2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Ask the students during pre-Civil Rights South, when they were commonly taught about the War of Northern Aggression.

An excellent example.  By reframing the Civil War as a "war of northen aggression" having nothing to do with slavery, whites in the south could avoid any residual feelings of shame associated with the position they took on slavery.  They could instead take pride in their ancestors who stood up to an evil north, rather than trying to reconcile their heritage of slavery with a more modern view of civil rights.

We are seeing the same thing happen today with the attempted cancellation of both CRT and the 1619 project.  These studies of history make many white people feel bad, because it reminds them that a significant part of this country came from the labor of slaves.  This make them feel - not bad, exactly, but like they cannot be as proud of their history as they otherwise could be.  "Make America Great Again" doesn't work if those halcyon days included slavery (or enforced segregation, or redlining, or any of the other structural racisms that the early and mid US incorporated.)

So they try to ban it.  They realize that banning history is something of a bad look, so they dress up the ban in flowery language and mix in a few "won't someone please think of the children" memes.   We've seen these a lot lately - "why are teachers teaching our children to hate themselves?"  CRT teaches kids "to be ashamed that they are white."  One theoretically real child tearfully asked her far-right mother "Why am I hated so much?" - and then supposedly needed therapy to overcome all the damage that CRT did.  (How fortunate that that child did it just in time for Marsha Blackburn's political campaign.)

Others spend thousands of words trying to define CRT to mean something other than CRT.  It's an "unremitting attack on Western institutions."  It teaches that "America is systemically racist and must be dismantled."  It was created by Karl Marx to destroy democracy.  It is a "monstrous evil" that gives black people "the whip handle" over white people.  (That last was from Pat Robertson; what a fascinating metaphor to use when one is advocating ignoring what slavery did to the country.)

Underlying all this blather is a simple belief common amongst the right - that education can and should be curtailed because it makes some people feel uncomfortable or threatened.  We have seen several examples right here on this forum.

George Orwell once said that "he who controls the past controls the future."  Conservatives are trying to take control of the past and alter it to something that works better for them.  The question is - will we let them?

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47 minutes ago, billvon said:

An excellent example.  By reframing the Civil War as a "war of northen aggression" having nothing to do with slavery, whites in the south could avoid any residual feelings of shame associated with the position they took on slavery.  ...

George Orwell once said that "he who controls the past controls the future."  Conservatives are trying to take control of the past and alter it to something that works better for them.  The question is - will we let them?

Like everything it comes down to money. The anti-wokers, white nationalists, GOP nationalists don't want to pay compensation for slavery, for land stolen from native Indians, Blacks, etc.

While in Australia to establish $280 million reparations fund for ‘Stolen Generation’

While in Canada: "The Liberal government is preparing to spend $40 billion to compensate First Nations children harmed by Ottawa’s underfunding of child and family services on reserve, as well as on reforming the current system."

In the US there is no discussion of compensation. Its branded as "wokeism". Even though $1.5 billion was paid to interned Japanese Americans.

Edited by Phil1111
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On 2/24/2022 at 5:10 PM, SkyDekker said:

Russia is now invading Ukraine.

Major news agencies are reporting on this. Fox instead has Ingraham chatting with Trump about the Russia Hoax.....

God help the Ukrainians.....and the US.

Still standing with Ukraine?

I didn't think Neo Nazis were considered cool these days.

 

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1 hour ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

Still standing with Ukraine?

I didn't think Neo Nazis were considered cool these days.

 

Just so you know, as apparently you're either an actual jumper (you filled in some profile), or a better than average spammer, trolling is against the forum rules.

Wendy P.

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53 minutes ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

That's a loaded question but hell yeah.

You stand with a totalitarian dictator against a functioning democracy?

Quote

Zelensky is a degenerate Moron, he is an actor and nothing less.

Right, he is nothing less than an actor. In fact, he's a hell of a lot more.

Quote

T6ee7d2ecb967ffaf.jpg

As trolls go, that's not even a good joke. Still, at least you've made it easy to see who the traitors are in this conversation. A new cold war is coming and you've chosen to side with the enemy.

Edited by jakee

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2 hours ago, olofscience said:

As inept as the Russian army was in trying to take Kyiv?

When your generals are all lying in zinc coffins. Its hard for draftees from the Urals with a grade eight education to decide what to do.

Even though Putin has lost his super yacht.

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He still has his Black Sea estate...er mold palace   Mold and rot. Just like Russia. So its conscripts might as well die for it.

Edited by Phil1111
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5 hours ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

Zelensky is a degenerate Moron, he is an actor and nothing less.

Exactly.  Here in the US, no one would be stupid enough to elect a reality-TV show actor as president.

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11 minutes ago, billvon said:

Exactly.  Here in the US, no one would be stupid enough to elect a reality-TV show actor as president.

Or a sportscaster turned actor who married an actress.

Edited by Phil1111

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5 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

When your generals are all lying in zinc coffins. Its hard for draftees from the Urals with a grade eight education to decide what to do.

Even though Putin has lost his super yacht.

spacer.png

 

He still has his Black Sea estate...er mold palace   Mold and rot. Just like Russia. So its conscripts might as well die for it.

Hi Phil,

Re:  Mold and rot. Just like Russia.

I think, more than we realize.  I was reading an AP article in this morning's newspaper that said Russia was running out of modern missiles & would soon need to use their missiles that are over 20 yrs old.  IMO so much for the 'all-powerful Russian military.'

Jerry Baumchen

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4 hours ago, billvon said:

Exactly.  Here in the US, no one would be stupid enough to elect a reality-TV show actor as president.

That isn't cool Bill, you are selling him short on the resume. You forgot racist, rapist, con man, and failed business man.

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3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phil,

Re:  Mold and rot. Just like Russia.

I think, more than we realize.  I was reading an AP article in this morning's newspaper that said Russia was running out of modern missiles & would soon need to use their missiles that are over 20 yrs old.  IMO so much for the 'all-powerful Russian military.'

Jerry Baumchen

I read  a similar article. They have pretty much run out of smart bombs. So they are losing A/C dropping unguided bombs. They are running short of cruise missiles and a sizeable percentage miss or fail.

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