Ukraine

[BIGUN 1,051]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Fear.

Scholz is afraid of Putin. 

Scholz is sitting on a three-legged stool. 1) Germany was in an energy alliance agreement with Russia for years (yank that the people have no energy),  2) Germany had not maintained its GDP Percentage to fund its military (which Scholz just allocated 100 Billion for, and 3) sending his newly backfilled military equipment to Ukraine then drains that military funding allotment requiring another financial backfill.

Then add that Germany has THE most laws after WWII about military engagement. He's trying to unravel and maneuver through military financial considerations and laws that do not appear as a declaration of war on Russia. At this time; it seems he's found a corridor to do all three and as you say; it's the start.     

[JoeWeber 2,297]

7 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Scholz is sitting on a three-legged stool. 1) Germany was in an energy alliance agreement with Russia for years (yank that the people have no energy),  2) Germany had not maintained its GDP Percentage to fund its military (which Scholz just allocated 100 Billion for, and 3) sending his newly backfilled military equipment to Ukraine then drains that military funding allotment requiring another financial backfill.

Then add that Germany has THE most laws after WWII about military engagement. He's trying to unravel and maneuver through military financial considerations and laws that do not appear as a declaration of war on Russia. At this time; it seems he's found a corridor to do all three and as you say; it's the start.     

Given it was likely that Western Tanks would get to Ukraine eventually do you think training has already been ongoing? 

[BIGUN 1,051]

26 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Given it was likely that Western Tanks would get to Ukraine eventually do you think training has already been ongoing? 

Not overtly. Simulation training has been on-going. Hands-On performance is about to begin. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-starts-advanced-ukraine-troops-training-large-scale-combat-2023-1

[BIGUN 1,051]

5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

likely that Western Tanks would get to Ukraine eventually

Looks like we're in it now. 

[murps2000 86]

45 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Looks like we're in it now. 

I’m curious which model Abrams we are sending. I thought the depleted uranium mesh armor was classified tech.

[riggerrob 558]

20 hours ago, murps2000 said:

I’m curious which model Abrams we are sending. I thought the depleted uranium mesh armor was classified tech.

Yes, but enough Abrams were damaged in Iraq that Russian and Chinese engineer spies understand what the finished armor looks like. The only thing they lack are the finer points of how to manufacture laminated armor.

[ryoder 1,381]

So even Russia's inflatable tanks don't work?

Ukraine says Russia's putting inflatable tanks on the battlefield — but the decoys deflated

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

So even Russia's inflatable tanks don't work?

Ukraine says Russia's putting inflatable tanks on the battlefield — but the decoys deflated

Hi Robert,

From your link:  The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in a Thursday Facebook post said Russia's army had run out of steam in the Zaporizhzhia region

I would caution the General Staff to stay away from building windows, also.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

All that has to happen to 'make peace' is Putin has to leave Ukraine. 

It's on him.

Currently, Putler is trying to draft a lot more people. Including those up to 60 years old.

Anyone with half a brain and a bit of cash has left the country.

And on the other side, the old adage 'necessity is the mother of invention' has proven correct again.

US & NATO supplied Javelin anti-tank missiles are VERY effective. But not cheap. Something like $200k each.

OTOH, a typical racing drone is in the neighborhood of $500. The warhead off of an RPG is a couple hundred (there are millions out there).

The racing drone has First Person Video (FPV). That gives the operator a 'drone's eye' view of where it's going, either on a monitor or VR goggles. 

The RPG warhead has it's fuse replaced. Original fuses have a safety mechanism, where the warhead won't arm until it's travelled a hundred meters or so, to prevent an 'oopsie' from killing the operator. They swap it out with a simple impact fuse. It hits something, it goes off.

There are comments with the videos that the speed of the drone (or lack of speed) would render the warhead ineffective. That's simply not true. The warhead has a shaped charge, and the design of the charge is what makes the 'supersonic blast wave' that punches holes in armor. The warhead doesn't need to be moving any particular speed to be effective.
The Soviets used magnetic shaped charge 'mines' against Nazi armor. Sneak up next to a tank, slap the magnet onto a weak spot on the tank, pull the fuse, run - REALLY fast.

So these guys are flying camera equipped drones, with RPG warheads around, finding Russian vehicles...

And blowing them up. 

For a tiny fraction of the cost of a Javelin missile. 

There's a lot of video out there of these. Some interesting footage.

One of the more telling videos is this one:

As it says in the title, the crews from the destroyed vehicles all run away.
All that is, except for one, who is clearly injured and is crawling on hands and knees. Alone.

One thing that is absolutely ingrained into US military people is that you NEVER abandon your wounded. EVER. US Marines are particularly adamant about that.

However, apparently 'every day is bowb your buddy day' in the Russian Army.

[jakee 1,254]

4 hours ago, Slim King said:

The US Government lied to us about the War in Viet Nam. They are lying now.

Who’s telling you the truth?

4 hours ago, Slim King said:

 If you read the current mass media they will tell you that Ukraine has lost 14,000 troops and Russia has lost between 100,000 to 200,000 troops according to which liar you believe. 

That’s a lie. The mainstream media says troop losses are approximately even, plus horrendous Ukrainian civilian casualties.

[kallend 1,623]

4 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

OTOH, a typical racing drone is in the neighborhood of $500. The warhead off of an RPG is a couple hundred (there are millions out there).

The racing drone has First Person Video (FPV). That gives the operator a 'drone's eye' view of where it's going, either on a monitor or VR goggles. 

The RPG warhead has it's fuse replaced. Original fuses have a safety mechanism, where the warhead won't arm until it's travelled a hundred meters or so, to prevent an 'oopsie' from killing the operator. They swap it out with a simple impact fuse. It hits something, it goes off.
 

The racing drones I've seen (and I've seen a lot) would not be capable of lifting an RPG warhead.  The available drones with that kind of lift capacity are far slower.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

The racing drones I've seen (and I've seen a lot) would not be capable of lifting an RPG warhead.  The available drones with that kind of lift capacity are far slower.

I figured you'd chime in, Professor. I know you have a hell of a lot of experience with these. Far more than me.

All I know about this particular situation is what I've read.

RPG warhead (no rocket tube, no launcher) goes between 4 and 8 pounds. Which is a lot for a drone. 

But the videos are showing what appears to be drones with the 'business end' of an RPG warhead in the bottom of the frame. 
And this article has pics of the drones with the warhead attached (note that there a no fuses on the tips of the warheads). Pics are on the ground, so there's no proof that those drones are lifting that particular warhead. The warhead noted in the article is said to be 2.6kg (about 5 1/2 pounds).

https://eurasiantimes.com/ukraine-is-slamming-russian-tanks-rpg-7-rockets/

[ryoder 1,381]

7 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I figured you'd chime in, Professor. I know you have a hell of a lot of experience with these. Far more than me.

All I know about this particular situation is what I've read.

RPG warhead (no rocket tube, no launcher) goes between 4 and 8 pounds. Which is a lot for a drone. 

But the videos are showing what appears to be drones with the 'business end' of an RPG warhead in the bottom of the frame. 
And this article has pics of the drones with the warhead attached (note that there a no fuses on the tips of the warheads). Pics are on the ground, so there's no proof that those drones are lifting that particular warhead. The warhead noted in the article is said to be 2.6kg (about 5 1/2 pounds).

https://eurasiantimes.com/ukraine-is-slamming-russian-tanks-rpg-7-rockets/

That photo of those tiny drones strapped to those big warheads is just hilarious!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

17 minutes ago, ryoder said:

That photo of those tiny drones strapped to those big warheads is just hilarious!

Well, you might notice that there's nothing extra on those drones. No top shell (less aerodynamic, but small weight saving). No landing gear (hold it in your hand to launch, no need to actually land). 

The part I can't get out of my head is the concept of being targeted by one of these.

Even a 'slow' drone is going to be way faster than an armored vehicle. 
So you're sitting on top of your BMP, and you hear the high-pitched whine of a drone. No biggie, you hear that all the time.
Then you see that it has a large shape underneath. 
THEN you realize what it is and what it's about to do.

This is reminiscent of the 90s 'robot' movie Runaway (Tom Selleck, Kirstie Alley & Gene Simmons). There was a scene where remote 'lock ons' were targeting a car on the highway. 
Nightmare stuff.

Edited February 6, 2023 by wolfriverjoe

[SkyDekker 1,121]

10 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Ever day more kids die while people play war. Name a single war that was stopped because the winner decided to retreat? End the war now .... Russia is encircling Ukraines forces and it will be another slaughter like the last one. Russia has 300,000 troops on standby. When the hammer drops the new tanks will mean nothing. 

 

Da, Komrad.

[wmw999 2,120]

Remember Google customizes it’s search for you.  My results have all references to Ukraine losses or losses for both. Although one does reference the first one (2014).

Wendy P. 

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, Slim King said:

Ever day more kids die while people play war. Name a single war that was stopped because the winner decided to retreat? End the war now ....

If the priority is to stop the war, what does it matter who is ‘winning’?

Russia should retreat and end the war, don’t you agree?

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, Slim King said:

NY TIMERS SAYS 200,000 Russians Dead,,,https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/02/us/politics/ukraine-russia-casualties.html.  

Try this from the same paper four months ago 

Russia and Ukraine each have suffered over 100,000 casualties, the top U.S. general says.

Seems like proof that you’re lying about what the mainstream media says, doesn’t it? So again, tell me where you’re getting your ‘true’ news from?

[billvon 2,395]

28 minutes ago, jakee said:

Seems like proof that you’re lying about what the mainstream media says, doesn’t it?

We already have proof of that from several of his other posts.  Why do you think this one would be any different?

[kallend 1,623]

9 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, you might notice that there's nothing extra on those drones. No top shell (less aerodynamic, but small weight saving). No landing gear (hold it in your hand to launch, no need to actually land). 

 

The "nothing extra" includes the batteries!

As it happens I know a lot about drones and drone aerodynamics.  I built my first one in 2011. (That's built, not bought).

No way the drones in that picture are lifting those warheads.

Edited February 7, 2023 by kallend

[JoeWeber 2,297]

12 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, you might notice that there's nothing extra on those drones. No top shell (less aerodynamic, but small weight saving). No landing gear (hold it in your hand to launch, no need to actually land). 

The part I can't get out of my head is the concept of being targeted by one of these.

Even a 'slow' drone is going to be way faster than an armored vehicle. 
So you're sitting on top of your BMP, and you hear the high-pitched whine of a drone. No biggie, you hear that all the time.
Then you see that it has a large shape underneath. 
THEN you realize what it is and what it's about to do.

This is reminiscent of the 90s 'robot' movie Runaway (Tom Selleck, Kirstie Alley & Gene Simmons). There was a scene where remote 'lock ons' were targeting a car on the highway. 
Nightmare stuff.

Joe, you are risking a lot.

[jakee 1,254]

3 hours ago, Slim King said:

If you were winning 

Why does it matter who is winning when the only priority is to stop the war? Russia should retreat back to its borders and make peace, shouldn’t it?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

23 hours ago, kallend said:

The "nothing extra" includes the batteries!

As it happens I know a lot about drones and drone aerodynamics.  I built my first one in 2011. (That's built, not bought).

No way the drones in that picture are lifting those warheads.

Well, when I was dabbling a bit in R/C helicopters, the LiPo batteries were somewhat volatile. I would put the battery in and hook it up as the last thing before takeoff.

I would think that keeping potentially volatile batteries and high explosives apart until the last moment is a prudent choice.

I have yet to see any video of an actual drone carrying an RPG warhead.

A quick search shows there are a bunch of multi-rotor drones capable of lifting 5 lbs. I don't know them anywhere near as well as you do, so I can't say which ones are and which aren't.

It's entirely possible that the pics of the drones with warheads is a fake. They may not want to show exactly how they do it.
It's not entirely impossible to believe that this is all faked, designed to scare the Russians. There's a bit more to the stories than I would expect for a propaganda/fake technology sort of thing, but I wouldn't be totally surprised to find that out. 

[JoeWeber 2,297]

36 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, when I was dabbling a bit in R/C helicopters, the LiPo batteries were somewhat volatile. I would put the battery in and hook it up as the last thing before takeoff.

I would think that keeping potentially volatile batteries and high explosives apart until the last moment is a prudent choice.

I have yet to see any video of an actual drone carrying an RPG warhead.

A quick search shows there are a bunch of multi-rotor drones capable of lifting 5 lbs. I don't know them anywhere near as well as you do, so I can't say which ones are and which aren't.

It's entirely possible that the pics of the drones with warheads is a fake. They may not want to show exactly how they do it.
It's not entirely impossible to believe that this is all faked, designed to scare the Russians. There's a bit more to the stories than I would expect for a propaganda/fake technology sort of thing, but I wouldn't be totally surprised to find that out. 

Joe, what the holy hell is your point? That anything is possible?

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Well, when I was dabbling a bit in R/C helicopters, the LiPo batteries were somewhat volatile. I would put the battery in and hook it up as the last thing before takeoff.

I would think that keeping potentially volatile batteries and high explosives apart until the last moment is a prudent choice.

I have yet to see any video of an actual drone carrying an RPG warhead.

A quick search shows there are a bunch of multi-rotor drones capable of lifting 5 lbs. I don't know them anywhere near as well as you do, so I can't say which ones are and which aren't.

It's entirely possible that the pics of the drones with warheads is a fake. They may not want to show exactly how they do it.
It's not entirely impossible to believe that this is all faked, designed to scare the Russians. There's a bit more to the stories than I would expect for a propaganda/fake technology sort of thing, but I wouldn't be totally surprised to find that out. 

There are certainly drones that can lift 5kg (and more) along with their batteries (which aren't light by any means), but not the drones in that photo.