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SkyDekker

Ukraine

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36 minutes ago, jakee said:

So why did you bring it up?

Specifically, why A10s were left out. Not why nukes were left out, why A10s were left out which is your scenario that you chose to talk about. So if you’re not worried about anyone with access to A10s doing something stupid why are you worried about someone with access to A10s doing something stupid?

Why are you guys wasting time babbling about an American ex-president and A-10s?

The USAF is the only air force to fly A-10s and they have repeatedly tried to retire them.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian Air Force started this most recent war with about 60 Sukhoi 25 Grach (NATO reporting name Frogfoot) ground attack airplanes. SU-25 is a dedicated, armored, sub-sonic, ground attack airplane roughly comparable to A-10. Both the Russian and Ukrainian air forces have used thier SU-25s to bomb and rocket ground targets. Both suffered Su-25 losses over Ukraine. 

On 5/13/2022 at 7:37 AM, kallend said:

At the risk of triggering a Godwin, isn't all this rather reminiscent of a certain German dictator in the 1930s and 1940s?  

 

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I worry about combat exhaustion amongst Ukrainian soldiers fighting on the southern and Eastern fronts. Since the start of the war, they have been fighting roughly 82 days with little rest and few replacements. They are rapidly approaching the 90 day threshold for psychological casualties.

This 90 day threshold was noticed by Canadian Army operations Research scientists in the aftermath of the Second World War. They noticed that Canadian soldiers suffered dramatically more psychological casualties after 90 days in the front line. Since Canadian infantry regiments suffered much higher casualties than forecast, they were chronically short of replacements. For example the Black Watch Regiment of Canada suffered 350 percent casualties during less than a year of fighting in Northwestern Europe (France, Belgium, Netherlands and into Germany). Canadian infantry regiments re-rolled all their drivers, cooks, clerks, signallers, etc. as infantrymen, but still fell well short of replacement levels. Then the Canadian Army gutted non-infantry regiments to provide more infantry, but few of these replacements had the months of infantry training required to defeat battle-hardened Germans. So they just threw exhausted veterans back into the battle. At best, an infantry regiment might be told to hold their most recent conquest for a few days as the rest of the army continued the advance. But the Canadian Army was too short of manpower to give regiments significant rest periods away from the front line.  

If treated poorly, battle exhaustion can stagnate into Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, so it is important to promptly de-brief these men and integrate them back into civilian society as soon as possible after fighting ceases.

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1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Nukes would definitely set off WW3. 

A-10s (or any other serious attack) from Ukraine might set it off.

I'm not worried about anyone else attacking Russia with A-10s (or anything else) at the moment.

The original album question was about the aid being provided to Ukraine, and why there were certain 'big ticket ' things being left out. 

Ukraine already got a bunch more Mig 29s estimated at 20. They can carry 3000KG of bombs.

 

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46 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Why are you guys wasting time babbling about an American ex-president and A-10s?

I have no idea why we’re talking about A10s starting WW3. You’ll need to ask the other guy.

47 minutes ago, riggerrob said:

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian Air Force started this most recent war with about 60 Sukhoi 25 Grach (NATO reporting name Frogfoot) ground attack airplanes. SU-25 is a dedicated, armored, sub-sonic, ground attack airplane roughly comparable to A-10. 

You’ve ruined the surprise. I was planning to point out that Ukraine already has ground attack planes but has somehow avoided going mental and bombing Moscow so far. 

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21 minutes ago, jakee said:

I have no idea why we’re talking about A10s starting WW3. You’ll need to ask the other guy.

You’ve ruined the surprise. I was planning to point out that Ukraine already has ground attack planes but has somehow avoided going mental and bombing Moscow so far. 

One rumor has it that Ukrainians bombed a fuel depot just across the border inside Russia.

Another version of the same story blames the flames on an industrial accident.

It will take us YEARS to sort through all the MASKirovka.

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43 minutes ago, jakee said:

They absolutely did, and there is no problem with that.

"attacks, which Ukrainian leaders have neither confirmed nor denied but which one senior adviser winkingly described as “karma” on Wednesday, suggest that Kyiv is increasingly able to reach into Russian territory as the war continues. Empowered by NATO’s military aid, Ukrainian troops are hitting infrastructure, military targets and, Russian authorities say, at least some villages. Russian citizens are now waking to the same explosions that Ukrainians have faced for more than two months, making the conflict far more immediate and dangerous.

At least 11 hits appear to have occurred since the fighting began Feb. 24, most of them since late last week. Most seem to have involved shelling or triggered Russian antiaircraft weaponry. A handful were suspicious explosions at Russian military facilities near the border.

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13 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I am still somewhat dumb-founded that the Russian military is so ineffective.

As an aviation fan I was always an admirer of Soviet and Russian aircraft - their looks. They kept focusing their performance on high-AOA tricks which was good for air shows, but I suspected that actual combat had moved away from dogfights given the US's focus on stealth, sensors, and avionics.

Same with logistics and communications - it's boring and uninteresting compared to shiny new weapons, but is the main deciding factor in a conflict.

 

I even know a lot of people who are like the Russian military - all talk and show, no substance. So I'm not that surprised they did so badly in Ukraine.

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4 hours ago, olofscience said:

As an aviation fan I was always an admirer of Soviet and Russian aircraft - their looks. They kept focusing their performance on high-AOA tricks which was good for air shows, ...

The movie Top Gun proved its value in combat!

 

4 hours ago, olofscience said:

... but I suspected that actual combat had moved away from dogfights given the US's focus on stealth, sensors, and avionics.

Same with logistics and communications - it's boring and uninteresting compared to shiny new weapons, but is the main deciding factor in a conflict.

I even know a lot of people who are like the US military Industrial complex(FIFY) - all talk and show, no substance. Anything to make a sale to the US taxpayer.(FIFY again)

Russia has more IR integration "Consider a QWIP technology “OLS-50M” installed in the PAK-FA.  Such a device could be design-optimised for simultaneous detection and tracking of aircraft exhausts, jet-plumes and missile flares to ranges of 70 nm and beyond – the limiting factors are the size of the optics, cooling system and detector area.  Russia has decades of experience in the integration of infrared sensors into its weapons systems, and QWIPs could well become the primary sensor and radar the secondary.  This means that the F-22A AN/ALR-94 will be denied signals to detect and track the PAK-FA.

"The ‘shooting match’ shifts from radar-centric to ‘infrared centric’.  The problem here is that the PAK-FA will have it, the F-22A does not, and the ability of the F-35 EOTS and DAS to make long range aircraft detections and guide weapons is at best ‘unproven’.  The F-35 systems have not been designed to be highly sensitive at the task of searching and tracking distant aircraft at those infrared colours where aircraft and their jet engines emit most of their infrared energy.  An understanding of the physics, or for the ever-hopeful, a simple Developmental Test and Evaluation exercise will demonstrate this.

With the Beyond-Visual-Range (BVR) radar detections being reduced to distances below 60 nautical miles and infrared sensor detection ranges growing beyond 50 nautical miles, a new generation of missiles will be required to dominate the battlespace."

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5 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

the PAK-FA

Which they can't even afford to produce. It's such a paper aircraft that India has backed out of acquiring those even before the Russian forces' pitiful performance in Ukraine.

And the IRST issue has been around for a while - your linked article is from 2009. With what fab capacity will Russia make those sensors? They only have 1 silicon fab - and those aren't any good at making IR sensors, since they top out at about 1100nm. They'll need InGaAs sensors there, and they've been importing those from France and Germany.

 

While the US MIC has its share of "all talk and no substance" people the problem is far worse in Russia.

Interestingly, the article you linked actually lobbies for more funding for the military by bigging up this "infrared gap" similar to how they hyped up the "bomber gap" in the 60s.

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1 minute ago, olofscience said:

Interestingly, the article you linked actually lobbies for more funding for the military by bigging up this "infrared gap" similar to how they hyped up the "bomber gap" in the 60s.

I was just going to say the same thing. Before even checking my strong assumption was that an article hyping up exceptional Russian capabilities in an expensive hi-tech field would conclude that the government should therefore give lots of funding to defence contractors to improve capabilities in that field. 
 

The bomber gap, the missile gap, the mineshaft gap, the helicopter gap and now the infrared gap. Amazing how many magical technologies the barely first world USSR and its successor have managed to ‘beat’ the US at before billions and billions of dollars were spent in response.

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Which they can't even afford to produce. ...

Interestingly, the article you linked actually lobbies for more funding for the military by bigging up this "infrared gap" similar to how they hyped up the "bomber gap" in the 60s.

That was more of a tongue and cheek answer. This war(sanctions) will finish off Russian aviation for a decade or two.. They will likely have to import technology from China in the future. Or at least as long as the remnants of Putin are around.

The future of combat aviation is morphing into secure data links for targeting. Using "Loyal Wingman" platforms, conventional drones and the sharing of targeting data between A/C. The F-35 and F-22 have this integrated into the targeting architecture of the avionics. The French are also working on it.

Israel is quite advanced in this area as well. It set aside the purchases of other A/C to buy more F-35s. Which they have used effectively in the face of S-400 systems in Syria. Using standoff glide bombs, drones and jamming. Together with F-35s they can attack weapons depos with impunity. The US and other NATO allies also have these capabilities.

This war has proven that even third rate counties can deal with Russia's current capacities.

Edited by Phil1111
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Dear olofscience,

While the Soviets/Russians were perfecting airplanes that could dog-fight at 6 to 9 Gs, the West was perfecting missiles that can turn at 30 Gs ... far more than a human can stay awake. Also consider that missiles can fly at 4 or 6 times the speed of sound ... velocities at which parts start melting off of conventional airplanes, so that modern missiles can easily triumph during tail-chases with manned airplanes that can barely exceed Mach 2.

Also, while guided missiles were crude, inaccurate and unreliable during the Vietnam War (19?? to 1974), the USA has been steadily improving their reliability and accuracy.

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A little reported fact is that Russia’s aims around Kyiv and western Ukraine were hampered not just by Russian incompetence but by widespread sabotage by Belorussian railway workers and trade unionists of the infrastructure they had planned to use for logistical support of the Kyiv column and forces assaulting Chernihiv etc. 

https://www.railtech.com/infrastructure/2022/04/15/railway-sabotage-after-50-days-of-war-in-ukraine-here-is-what-we-know/?gdpr=accept

 

Many of these saboteurs and suspected saboteurs have been arrested. The president of Belarus has now changed the law so that these ‘crimes’ could result in the death penalty.

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On 5/16/2022 at 11:58 AM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

I never get all a giggle and agog when it comes to war.

What I do find ironic is how poor of a military the Russians have.

Looks me that the all-powerful Russian bear has few teeth.

And, everyone was so afraid of starting WW III.

Jerry Baumchen

All they really have are nukes, which they would be stupid to use. Nobody wins a global nuclear war. The Russian military has been corrupted by greed, leading to shoddy equipment, poorly trained conscripts, inept leadership (how many generals have been killed so far?), etc. 

I guess the only question is how far is Putin willing to go, as far as military losses go, to get his objectives.

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14 hours ago, BillyVance said:

All they really have are nukes, which they would be stupid to use. Nobody wins a global nuclear war. The Russian military has been corrupted by greed, leading to shoddy equipment, poorly trained conscripts, inept leadership (how many generals have been killed so far?), etc. 

I guess the only question is how far is Putin willing to go, as far as military losses go, to get his objectives.

As we saw in 1944, a dictator really has nothing to lose by continuing to sacrifice his own people even in the face of certain defeat.

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3 hours ago, kallend said:

As we saw in 1944, a dictator really has nothing to lose by continuing to sacrifice his own people even in the face of certain defeat.

The Russians (and Soviets both after and before the Russians) have a long history of allowing their troops to die in ridiculously large numbers.

There are reports that 1/3 of the Russian soldiers deployed to Ukraine have been killed.

 

If that's true, they've lost more soldiers in Ukraine in less than 3 months than they did in 10 years in Afghanistan.

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4 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The Russians (and Soviets both after and before the Russians) have a long history of allowing their troops to die in ridiculously large numbers.

There are reports that 1/3 of the Russian soldiers deployed to Ukraine have been killed.

 

If that's true, they've lost more soldiers in Ukraine in less than 3 months than they did in 10 years in Afghanistan.

If you were 21 years old or less, and Russian, during WWII you had less than a 20% chance of being alive after the war. What is stunning to me is that it must be a cultural thing. Modern Russian society is connected to the world. They know how their leaders think. And yet, like our own brainwashed many here in the US, they buy the bullshit and let it happen. 

The world we hoped would happen seems no longer on offer; too many yearn for no choices and controlled stability. It's a bitter pill to swallow but that's how it is.

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17 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The Russians (and Soviets both after and before the Russians) have a long history of allowing their troops to die in ridiculously large numbers.

There are reports that 1/3 of the Russian soldiers deployed to Ukraine have been killed.

 

If that's true, they've lost more soldiers in Ukraine in less than 3 months than they did in 10 years in Afghanistan.

I believe the reports are that 1/3 of Russian combat groups are ineffective due to losses. If it was 1/3 killed that would be about 70,000 which is way too high.

6 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

If you were 21 years old or less, and Russian, during WWII you had less than a 20% chance of being alive after the war. What is stunning to me is that it must be a cultural thing. Modern Russian society is connected to the world. They know how their leaders think. And yet, like our own brainwashed many here in the US, they buy the bullshit and let it happen. 

The world we hoped would happen seems no longer on offer; too many yearn for no choices and controlled stability. It's a bitter pill to swallow but that's how it is.

Street surveys suggest that about 10% of younger people in the cities know whats going on. The balance and mainly older people swallow state TV like a dish of fresh perogies. There is no free press. No real free exchange of ideas. Rural areas have few independent minds. Few real employment possibilities.

The US has a free press and a real opportunity to exchange ideas. But some choose to ignore those possibilities. Another iron curtain is descending. Putin and XI hold power without oversight.

What was that good bourbon? A drink I can control. The world I can't.

 

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8 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

I believe the reports are that 1/3 of Russian combat groups are ineffective due to losses. If it was 1/3 killed that would be about 70,000 which is way too high.

Oops. You're right.

1/3 no longer able to participate in the fight. Killed, injured or captured.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/15/russia-lost-a-third-of-its-forces-in-ukraine-now-its-losing-the-war/?sh=5f54e313352e

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1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

I believe the reports are that 1/3 of Russian combat groups are ineffective due to losses. If it was 1/3 killed that would be about 70,000 which is way too high.

Street surveys suggest that about 10% of younger people in the cities know whats going on. The balance and mainly older people swallow state TV like a dish of fresh perogies. There is no free press. No real free exchange of ideas. Rural areas have few independent minds. Few real employment possibilities.

The US has a free press and a real opportunity to exchange ideas. But some choose to ignore those possibilities. Another iron curtain is descending. Putin and XI hold power without oversight.

What was that good bourbon? A drink I can control. The world I can't.

 

Yep. I'll put a decent Bourbon aboard so if you stop by The Peoples Republic of Joe you won't be disappointed. 

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21 minutes ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

I can't say for sure why that word was chosen at the time. I'd be lying if I did.

'Eludes'? You chose it because you don't do English good.

Quote

However the scientists were unsure of the actual number of monkeys where the critical mass was  formed.

The scientists didn't find any critical mass at all. 

Quote

This type of connection between mammals, is the bit where Atheistic Nihilist drop the ball.

Since this type of connection has never been found, it really is not.

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1 minute ago, The Hundredth Monkey said:

Do explain.

What could possibly be confusing about the statement that telepathy isn't real?

Quote

I'm agnostic

You apparently believe telepathy is real because of spirituality so no, you're really not.

Quote

My guess is Nihilist Atheist?

I don;t know what you think that means.

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