Sabre2 vs Safire2

[BatmanSD 0]

So I am getting a new canopy and people have been giving me suggestions. Mainly whats the difference between a saber 2 and a safire 2. People have been telling me that a saber 2 is "faster" and "better for learning to swoop." which isn't really what I'm trying to do but does anyone know any major differences? Thanks

[Rstanley0312 0]

BatmanSD

So I am getting a new canopy and people have been giving me suggestions. Mainly whats the difference between a saber 2 and a safire 2. People have been telling me that a saber 2 is "faster" and "better for learning to swoop." which isn't really what I'm trying to do but does anyone know any major differences? Thanks

I have flown both and I like the Safire 2 much more. Just my opinion but I think it opens better, flies better, and has more bottom end (flare). My advice... jump both and decide for yourself.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[billvon 2,380]

>I have flown both and I like the Safire 2 much more.

I second that. It's my "go-to" canopy for camera and bigways. It opens soft and generally on-heading, is moderately light on front risers and will let you keep a significant amount of speed coming out of a turn. It lands well whether you carry extra speed or not.

[theplummeter 14]

I'll third the Safire2 vote. The same size Sabre2 was very similar when I demoed it, but it wasn't worth the openings for it's tiny level of higher performance in a dive, and I ended up with a Safire2.

As you work into smaller sizes and higher loadings the Sabre2 seems to widen the gap on recovery arc and flare after a high performance turn, but by then many people are on a different class of canopy anyway.

Both are excellent canopies and well supported by manufacturers.

[virgin-burner 1]

cant say much about the sabre2, but i like my saf a lot, and got awesome customer-service when i've had a problem with it. they fixed it free of charge after 4 years of use and approximately 200 jumps, no shipping costs plus a free t-shirt. FUCK YEAH!

anytime again!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[FlyingRhenquest 1]

I have a Safire 2 and have flown a Sabre 2, loading them both neighborhood of 1.1 to 1. At that loading, the Safire usually opens more softly, is not quite as "twitchy" as the Sabre, and feels like it glides farther. The Sabre 2 I jumped was pretty old though, so newer ones might fly farther.

I prefer my Safire 2 to anything else I've flown so far, although the Sabre would definitely be a very close second choice for me. If anything happened to my Safire 2 at this point, I would definitely buy another one to replace it.

I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here?

[lyosha 46]

BatmanSD

So I am getting a new canopy and people have been giving me suggestions. Mainly whats the difference between a saber 2 and a safire 2. People have been telling me that a saber 2 is "faster" and "better for learning to swoop." which isn't really what I'm trying to do but does anyone know any major differences? Thanks

My Sabre2 had 50% more flare power than my Safire2.

Namely, I could land my Sabre2 safely three times before I ran out of flare. I only have two safe landings in my Safire2. My Safire2 flies most like my Sabre1.

[wasatchrider 0]

lyosha

***So I am getting a new canopy and people have been giving me suggestions. Mainly whats the difference between a saber 2 and a safire 2. People have been telling me that a saber 2 is "faster" and "better for learning to swoop." which isn't really what I'm trying to do but does anyone know any major differences? Thanks

My Sabre2 had 50% more flare power than my Safire2.

Namely, I could land my Sabre2 safely three times before I ran out of

flare. I only have two safe landings in my Safire2. My Safire2 flies most like my Sabre1.

Their both skydive canopies if you can't land them you suck, not directed at you just everybody

BASE 1519

[Baksteen 84]

Rstanley0312

My advice... jump both and decide for yourself.

That's it, in a nutshell. Sound advice.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Unstable 8]

Quote

Their both skydive canopies if you can't land them you suck, not directed at you just everybody

Yeah, I feel like we've all been down this thread 100 times before. I've put jumps on both, with about 900 on a Sabre2-150, and I think they are very comparable canopies. The Sabre2 has a lot more stopping power in the upper portion of the flare, with the Safire2 having more near the bottom. Both openings were comparable. Safire2 has a shorter arc recovery, but not much.

=========Shaun ==========

[lyosha 46]

wasatchrider

******So I am getting a new canopy and people have been giving me suggestions. Mainly whats the difference between a saber 2 and a safire 2. People have been telling me that a saber 2 is "faster" and "better for learning to swoop." which isn't really what I'm trying to do but does anyone know any major differences? Thanks

My Sabre2 had 50% more flare power than my Safire2.

Namely, I could land my Sabre2 safely three times before I ran out of

flare. I only have two safe landings in my Safire2. My Safire2 flies most like my Sabre1.

Their both skydive canopies if you can't land them you suck, not directed at you just everybody

This matters a LOT if your dz is prone to gusty conditions or mechanical turbulence. It becomes the difference between stabbing out a landing and a lumbar fracture.

[DougH 270]

lyosha

This matters a LOT if your dz is prone to gusty conditions or mechanical turbulence. It becomes the difference between stabbing out a landing and a lumbar fracture.

If you are relying on canopy choice to be the deciding factor between a salvageable landing and an injury in turbulent conditions maybe you need a new canopy operator, or operating techniques, and not a new canopy. Even better, you shouldn't be jumping in those conditions.

The difference that you thinks exists just isn't reality.

Out of curiosity, since you seem to be the DZ.com guru of all questions asked as of late, where exactly do you jump that you have racked up all this immense experience jumping with turbulence. I am guessing based on your post that you must have 100's of Sabre II jumps, and the same for Safire II jumps, right? That only makes sense given how strongly your deliver your opinion, it must be backed up with boat loads of real world experience with both canopies.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[lyosha 46]

Yes, hypothetically speaking the blame is on the skydiver for fucking up.

But we live in the real world and a bunch of my friends have injuries from crappy landings from getting unlucky with winds that got worse, and with a Sabre2 your safety margin is greater. In my opinion.

[DougH 270]

lyosha

Yes, hypothetically speaking the blame is on the skydiver for fucking up.

But we live in the real world and a bunch of my friends have injuries from crappy landings from getting unlucky with winds that got worse, and with a Sabre2 your safety margin is greater. In my opinion.

Don't care to address the real world experience for your opinion? It is relevant for other users of the forum.

Your friends have had crappy landings and got hurt? Again it isn't the canopy, it is the stupid decision to jump in those conditions.

Opinions carry weight in the skydiving world. This isn't a knitting website last time I checked. Opinions without basis unfairly hurt vendors, and they can't motivate skydivers to make stupid decisions, or uneducated ones.

It is a pretty bold statement, your opinion, that some how the Sabre II has this large safety margin over the Safire II in bad conditions.

You must have a shit ton of jumps with the two canopies and lots of canopy flight experience in general to make such a claim, right?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[billvon 2,380]

>This matters a LOT if your dz is prone to gusty conditions or mechanical
>turbulence. It becomes the difference between stabbing out a landing and a
>lumbar fracture.

There are very few canopies out there that have such serious control problems that they decide the safety of the landings. The two that come to mind are the Nova and the Micro Ravens; both are fortunately almost completely gone from the skydiving scene. Beyond problems like that, different people will have different successes with different canopies in turbulent conditions. But this is due to their skill on that canopy, not because of what the canopy is "doing."

Case in point. A guy on our old DZ landed fine most of the time. But when it was gusty he'd stick his arm out to break his fall. Eventually broke his arm. His story - "yeah, a side gust made the canopy turn at the last second!" which of course was not the case - HE made the canopy turn.

When he got back into the sport he switched his Stiletto for a Sabre 1 and it solved most of his problem. Not because it was a better canopy, but because it didn't react as aggressively to his own (erroneous) input.

In your case it sounds like the Sabre2 is a safer canopy for you. It will be different for everyone, depending on their skills and familiarity with the canopy. That's why it's important to test jump ANY canopy you are considering buying. Because no matter what their specs, or performance in someone else's hands, if you can fly one canopy better than the other one, it will almost always be the better canopy for you.

[lyosha 46]

Conditions change. In my experience a Sabre2 is more forgiving. That is all.

For most jumpers it doesn't matter because few DZs are narrow fields surrounded by trees.

It is important to speak to experienced jumpers at your DZ for local advice.

[DougH 270]

lyosha

Conditions change. In my experience a Sabre2 is more forgiving. That is all.

For most jumpers it doesn't matter because few DZs are narrow fields surrounded by trees.

It is important to speak to experienced jumpers at your DZ for local advice.

Still dancing I see. I don't know why it is so difficult to say, I did 250 jumps on my Safire II, before putting the next 300 on my Sabre II. I had x number of bad landings under my Safire II that I attribute to it being a less suitable design (less suitable for you) than the Sabre II.

It is easy to share with the group, and it helps add weight to your commentary.

Your DZ sounds very similar to mine in regards to conditions. I haven't seen a rash of landing injuries due to turbulence and not flying Sabre II's. What DZ that you jump at, which has a big pool of broken jumpers that you can poll for input?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[lyosha 46]

DougH

***Conditions change. In my experience a Sabre2 is more forgiving. That is all.

For most jumpers it doesn't matter because few DZs are narrow fields surrounded by trees.

It is important to speak to experienced jumpers at your DZ for local advice.

Still dancing I see. I don't know why it is so difficult to say, I did 250 jumps on my Safire II, before putting the next 300 on my Sabre II. I had x number of bad landings under my Safire II that I attribute to it being a less suitable design (less suitable for you) than the Sabre II.

It is easy to share with the group, and it helps add weight to your commentary.

Your DZ sounds very similar to mine in regards to conditions. I haven't seen a rash of landing injuries due to turbulence and not flying Sabre II's. What DZ that you jump at, which has a big pool of broken jumpers that you can poll for input?

I put around 150 jumps on my sabre2, a handful on the safire2 before selling it and somewhere well north of 100 on a sabre1 including a brief period in which I compared the three head to head. I don't know the exact numbers because I don't keep a detailed logbook.

I have had zero hard landings attributable to any canopy. I have had the weather conditions change on me to unfavorable too many times to count, and have had to face adverse conditions on all three canopies. I found one of them easier to handle adverse conditions with.

All three canopies were in reasonably good shape, brakes were in proper trim, etc.

If your experiences are different, I would encourage you to share without making it personal. Thanks.

[hookitt 0]

Would you mind defining what the adverse conditions you've encountered are?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[lyosha 46]

By adverse conditions I am referring to specifically mechanical turbulence.

[likestojump 3]

lyosha

By adverse conditions I am referring to specifically mechanical turbulence.

I'll freefly admit to googling "mechanical trubulence".
this is what I found : http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/aviation:atmospheric-turbulence

Random internet source

This is caused by interference of surface features on the horizontal flow of air. This could include mountains, Tall buildings, Trees, etc.
The amount of turbulence depends on speed of wind, the size of the obstruction, the shape of obstruction and atmospheric conditions.
An aircraft will experience turbulence as it flys over and behind this object.

With that in mind, flying over obstacles on final is a moronic move and many people learn it as wind shadow.
NEXT.

[gunsmokex 1]

I'm pretty interested in this topic as well.

Have been using an old Hornet and am trying to decide between the Sabre 2 Safire 2 and the Pilot. Don't really know if I want to go and stick the $$ into a new lineset on it or not :/

Guess mainly what I want is the canopy with the BEST possible flare available in ALL conditions as where I jump conditions can change fast.

Thanks

[achikin 0]

I would argue against choosing a canopy based on a single parameter.
First of all those three you've mentioned(Sabre, Safire, Pilot) are very similar in there characteristics so "the best" means slightly better then competitors.
Second - a good flare is a result of your flying skills more than of canopy construction if we're talking about those three, again. Being so focused on flaring capabilities can mean that you have flare problems and you're doing yourself a bad favor trying to eliminate those issues by choosing a more flare-forgiving parachute.
Third - when you'll figure out the flare - you'll end up with a parachute which is good for, well, flaring, missing the other characteristics like getting from long spots, front riser pressure, turn performance and whatever.
Lastly - canopy flying experience is a very subjective thing. Different people can give completely different opinions on the same parachute at the same WL, including flare performance. So better try out all of them and choose the one you'll find the best for you.

[gunsmokex 1]

Achikin I have my reasons. Just was wanting the comparison specifically of the flare of the big 3. For myself the canopies flare happens to be most important aspect when choosing a canopy. Thanks

[Joellercoaster 6]

That may be true, but flare is still just as subjective as any other aspect, and the answer is the same - demo

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?