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acho

Findinig cutaway canopy - my vision

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Hi,

With my low jumps and no cutaway so far I might not talk about cutaways but I was thinking about device that can help tracking down the main after cutaway.

First idea that I had was based on cell phone network. It is not what I was looking for. In this case you have to think about plan, coverage and if jumping abroad roaming fees.

So after some brainstorming and few prototipes I have something that might do the job.

The device is small 2.37"x1.37"x0.6" and weights just over 1 oz /33 grams/. It has built in GPS, radio transmitter and rechargable battery which can hold about 14 hours. It is activated by magnet so no user activation involved. The range of the device is about 2 miles surface to surface. From the air it might be more.

The best part is that I don't need expensive receiver in order to use the transmitter. I need simple walkie talkie at 460-470 mhz band /ulicensed band/ which can be found just about anywhere and once the transmitter is called it just tells with voice it's GPS coordinates.

The big question is where in the rig to install it. I left it with my local rigger but would like to hear more opinions. So far I was thinkink about main raisers or d-bag. What do you think?

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there is a reason why this type of stuff hasn't got all that popular.

1. cutaway doesn't happen all that much.
2. people usually find their stuff.
3. after losing one main, you'll learn to chase it to the gates of hell.

Most of the stuff that we've seen in the past were activated by riser separating away from container.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I had two ideas behind this project:

1. To proove that I can do it ;)
2. To make it easy and fast to find the chopped canopy

It was all about fun in first place /as skydiving in general/. I love chalanges an I love aimple solutions.

Since the first point above was achieved I just wanted to share with you.

I feel some kind of pride that the device works and that I managed to squeeze it in this small box.

Now I have to find the best way to install it to the rig ;)

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http://www.plexustandem.com/fido-user.html

similar stuff made for Tandem canopy, which is in production already. Tandem main costs like 5000 bucks, so it is more important for the schools to get their tandem canopy back vs the fun jumpers.

but then ya, go for it, more engineering that people put it to, the sport will continue to evolve.

Just don't think that you'll make $$$$. if creating some product is your thing... more power to ya.
Bernie Sanders for President 2016

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I found this product but the price is high for fun jumpers. It also involves two pieces of custom equipment.

My aproach was a bit different - I wanted to build something simple that will tell you the coordinates and will work with off the shelf receivers/walkie talkie.

It is not about making $$$$, it is about challange and thinking outside the box. If I calculate the time and money spent for this project it does not worth it but the morale reward when it first answered my call is priceless :)

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I can tell you my experience about placing on the dbag.
I have had 3 different types (a few off each type too) of GPSes there and they have all been destroyed by the forces.
I have never thought the forces where that strong placing something on or hanging from the dbag.

Yours might be better but I just wanted to warn you.

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I always think a cheap (100 dollarish) rc plane with a gopro attached to it should be able to relocate most canopies that are too hard to find/not immediately recovered. You can just chip in for the price with some other folks at the dz and keep the cost low.
Parachute gear garage sale at :http://www.usedparachutes.eu

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This has been tried before.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/get-it-back-canopy-recovery-system

I also started a thread on this subject awhile back for a kickstarter project I found that could potentially work as a recovery system.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4656657

And here is another thin tracking device.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/trackr-bravo-the-thinnest-tracking-device-ever--2

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The first link (for the Get It Back) is a device that was announced this year. It's the first one I know of that isn't terribly expensive. Cell based.

Fits in the risers, activated similar to an RSL.

Your idea of a simple walkie talkie as a receiver is better than the cell based signal. Assuming that you can get enough range to reach a plane flying around 1000'.

You said "magnet activated". how would you plan on doing that if it was located in the D-Bag? (nevermind the G-forces)

And
rastapara

I always think a cheap (100 dollarish) rc plane with a gopro attached to it should be able to relocate most canopies that are too hard to find/not immediately recovered. You can just chip in for the price with some other folks at the dz and keep the cost low.



Professor Kallend did this earlier this summer. The canopy had fallen between rows of fairly tall corn and was well hidden.

But a couple of experienced "lookers" in a 182 can accomplish the same thing. I've done it a couple times.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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stayhigh

there is a reason why this type of stuff hasn't got all that popular.

1. cutaway doesn't happen all that much.
2. people usually find their stuff.
3. after losing one main, you'll learn to chase it to the gates of hell.

Most of the stuff that we've seen in the past were activated by riser separating away from container.



It could be beneficial in case some douchebag finds your canopy by a roadside and decides to swipe it as a souvenir.

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wolfriverjoe



Your idea of a simple walkie talkie as a receiver is better than the cell based signal. Assuming that you can get enough range to reach a plane flying around 1000'.

You said "magnet activated". how would you plan on doing that if it was located in the D-Bag? (nevermind the G-forces)



The range is about 2 miles tested on the ground outside the city but close to it and some power lines near by. I guess if used from the air the range will be more

magnet activated means that there is no mechanical switch which can fail, not in the classic meaning of the word. It uses reed switch which stays open when magnetic field is presented and closes when away from the magnet which powers up the device. If magnet can be installed in the container so when packed to be against the device in the d-bag it will work like this - d-bag out of the container device is active, d-bag in the container the device is inactive. This also can help locating of site landed jumper and it is good potion if the jumper is injured and need help.

rastapara

I always think a cheap (100 dollarish) rc plane with a gopro attached to it should be able to relocate most canopies that are too hard to find/not immediately recovered. You can just chip in for the price with some other folks at the dz and keep the cost low.



It is true to some point but not 100%. In the US FAA makes it illegal to fly RC aircraft in 5 miles radius from the airport. They also required RC aircraft to be operated in clear eye sight and FPV is not so legal. Even this is not an issue if the RC aircraft crasshes with the gopro you are looking at ~$500 losses.

Hellis

I can tell you my experience about placing on the dbag.
I have had 3 different types (a few off each type too) of GPSes there and they have all been destroyed by the forces.
I have never thought the forces where that strong placing something on or hanging from the dbag.

Yours might be better but I just wanted to warn you.



Thanks for the warning. I am optimist about the device's survival since inside the box everything is very tight packed and secured to the box with screws so little to no room for movements and the movements are what destroys things.
Will test it and will see. If I builded one I can build another one ;)

rohicks

This has been tried before.
https://www.indiegogo.com/...nopy-recovery-system

I also started a thread on this subject awhile back for a kickstarter project I found that could potentially work as a recovery system.
http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=4656657

And here is another thin tracking device.
https://www.indiegogo.com/...cking-device-ever--2



The first link is GSM based which brings some weak points as it has to have sim card with active plan, cell coverage in the area and if you travel and jump abroad activated roaming and the above conditions too. It has mechanical switch activated by pulling out cable attached to the container. The switch can fail easy and I try to avoid physical tethering to the container. May be paranoid but in case of emergency I don't want to have something extra that have to separate from the bad main.
In other hand the price for it was $199 for early bird orders and $239 for normal price if I get it correctly. On top of that you have to add the subscription which pumps up the price even more.

In my case the price for parts and some labor for my device is around $200 without volume discounts on parts and no subscription whatsoever. Yes, this is the price which I paid to build the device including some labor and no R&D but again I made it for me and R&D is performed by me in free time when I can work on it so it is "free" to me ;)

the second link is cool device, but the home base has to be connected to the internet which is not always possible. The device is priced right IMHO.

The third link is cool and cheap option but it has range of 300 feet by it's own. It can expand but it again involves third party networks.

The idea originally came form friend of mine who is skydiver and jumps in Europe. I accepted it as a challenge. Now both of us will have it and I am happy that the idea turned out inn to real working device.

Again, this was side project for fun and making money was not part of the idea behind it.

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acho


The range is about 2 miles tested on the ground outside the city but close to it and some power lines near by. I guess if used from the air the range will be more

magnet activated means that there is no mechanical switch which can fail, not in the classic meaning of the word. It uses reed switch which stays open when magnetic field is presented and closes when away from the magnet which powers up the device. If magnet can be installed in the container so when packed to be against the device in the d-bag it will work like this - d-bag out of the container device is active, d-bag in the container the device is inactive. This also can help locating of site landed jumper and it is good potion if the jumper is injured and need help.


It is true to some point but not 100%. In the US FAA makes it illegal to fly RC aircraft in 5 miles radius from the airport. They also required RC aircraft to be operated in clear eye sight and FPV is not so legal. Even this is not an issue if the RC aircraft crasshes with the gopro you are looking at ~$500 losses....

...I am optimist about the device's survival since inside the box everything is very tight packed and secured to the box with screws so little to no room for movements and the movements are what destroys things...

The idea originally came form friend of mine who is skydiver and jumps in Europe. I accepted it as a challenge. Now both of us will have it and I am happy that the idea turned out inn to real working device.

Again, this was side project for fun and making money was not part of the idea behind it.



So if it's installed in the D-bag it would activate every deployment? What would that do to battery life?

Bolding mine.

It's not illegal to operate within 5 miles of an airport. You just have to notify the airport authorities.
FPV also isn't illegal. It's perfectly legal to operate an R/C aircraft with FPV, as long as it remains within sight of the operator. Using "video goggles" as the sole means of seeing where the aircraft (without someone else on a "buddy box" maintaining visual contact) isn't legal. But that's not what was suggested.

FAA Regs

Don't kid yourself that movement is what breaks stuff. It's G-forces. No matter how 'tight' everything is, you give it enough G and something will break.

And please don't misunderstand my criticisms and questions. I think it's a cool project. Actually getting one of these to work, at a reasonable cost, without interfering with the rest of the operation of the gear is a pretty admirable goal.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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wolfriverjoe

***
The range is about 2 miles tested on the ground outside the city but close to it and some power lines near by. I guess if used from the air the range will be more

magnet activated means that there is no mechanical switch which can fail, not in the classic meaning of the word. It uses reed switch which stays open when magnetic field is presented and closes when away from the magnet which powers up the device. If magnet can be installed in the container so when packed to be against the device in the d-bag it will work like this - d-bag out of the container device is active, d-bag in the container the device is inactive. This also can help locating of site landed jumper and it is good potion if the jumper is injured and need help.


It is true to some point but not 100%. In the US FAA makes it illegal to fly RC aircraft in 5 miles radius from the airport. They also required RC aircraft to be operated in clear eye sight and FPV is not so legal. Even this is not an issue if the RC aircraft crasshes with the gopro you are looking at ~$500 losses....

...I am optimist about the device's survival since inside the box everything is very tight packed and secured to the box with screws so little to no room for movements and the movements are what destroys things...

The idea originally came form friend of mine who is skydiver and jumps in Europe. I accepted it as a challenge. Now both of us will have it and I am happy that the idea turned out inn to real working device.

Again, this was side project for fun and making money was not part of the idea behind it.



So if it's installed in the D-bag it would activate every deployment? What would that do to battery life?

Bolding mine.

It's not illegal to operate within 5 miles of an airport. You just have to notify the airport authorities.
FPV also isn't illegal. It's perfectly legal to operate an R/C aircraft with FPV, as long as it remains within sight of the operator. Using "video goggles" as the sole means of seeing where the aircraft (without someone else on a "buddy box" maintaining visual contact) isn't legal. But that's not what was suggested.

FAA Regs

Don't kid yourself that movement is what breaks stuff. It's G-forces. No matter how 'tight' everything is, you give it enough G and something will break.

And please don't misunderstand my criticisms and questions. I think it's a cool project. Actually getting one of these to work, at a reasonable cost, without interfering with the rest of the operation of the gear is a pretty admirable goal.

wolfriverjoe, all the critics are welcome - this is how the truth is born :)

You are correct regarding 5 miles rule but I had in my mind bog commercial airports where if you call tower and ask for permission to fly near the airport they will deny it. In DZ case it is easy to obtain approval :)


Regarding FPV - this is what I had in mind, you can use it but can not fly only relying on FPV googles - you have to have visual contact with the aircraft at all the time. Small $100 ish aircraft is very hard to see if 1000' away and even if you can see it it is very hard to know the heading just by looking at it. The above does not stop people from flying way beyond line of sight ;)

And one more thing to add to RC solution - you have to be good RC pilot :)

G forces make unsecured thinks to move. I admit that I have no ground to make statement that my device will survive it until it was jumped enough times to prove it strong enough for this abuse

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So, just seeing if I have this correct in my mind:

This device is sewn attached on the deployment bag and goes into active mode every time my bag separates from the container. It will stay in active mode until it is turned off by being repacked.

So, don't trunk pack.

Every unpacked canopy at the DZ will broadcast also while I am looking for mine. Is each one assigned a different frequency?

Again, I think its a great idea. Just trying to see how this will work on a busy Saturday.

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topdocker

So, just seeing if I have this correct in my mind:

This device is sewn attached on the deployment bag and goes into active mode every time my bag separates from the container. It will stay in active mode until it is turned off by being repacked.

So, don't trunk pack.

Every unpacked canopy at the DZ will broadcast also while I am looking for mine. Is each one assigned a different frequency?

Again, I think its a great idea. Just trying to see how this will work on a busy Saturday.

top



By activated I mean it is listening for call and yes, user can set the frequency so it is not one frequency for all. It broadcasts only after call from walkie talkie - you have to broadcast tone to activate it and yes, even the ones sold by walmart can do it.

In the event of cutaway and multiple devices on same frequency at the DZ they can easy be deactivated by: a. pack and close the container or b. by putting magnet close to it to imitate packed and closed container.

EDIT: I was thinking about the idea of busy Saturday and came up with idea to have it broadcast coordinates every 20-30 minutes without call so you can hear it even if multiple devices answer the call /chances that all the active devices have the timers to expire at the same moment are very slim/

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Couldn't you just use one of those autopilot chips, set up a waypoint grid and put the gopro on picture mode. Then get some stitch software and make a highres map.I think it would be easier to look for the canopy on a highres map then in real time with fpv goggles. (admitted, that wil make it a little bit more expensive, but compared to the cost of losing a canopy and only needing one set up per dz its negligible)
Parachute gear garage sale at :http://www.usedparachutes.eu

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rastapara

Couldn't you just use one of those autopilot chips, set up a waypoint grid and put the gopro on picture mode. Then get some stitch software and make a highres map.I think it would be easier to look for the canopy on a highres map then in real time with fpv goggles. (admitted, that wil make it a little bit more expensive, but compared to the cost of losing a canopy and only needing one set up per dz its negligible)



I think that's something like what Professor Kallend did. Flew a grid pattern with the GoPro taking stills, then put the individual pics into a composite.
Then search the picture (after the flight) to find the canopy.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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