Trendy or improvement ?

[erdnarob 1]

I am essentially a group jump jumper (belly) but this message can apply to all group jumps.
In the 70s, the count down for exit was : ready, set, go. Generally shouted and often accompanied by swinging a leg (generally done by the jump organizer). In the late 80s and in the 90s we have seen for count down : up, down, up. In 2010, there was : shake of head and shoulders, up, down, up.
Now in 2015, I have seen at least 3 types of count down including : shake, down, up

Everybody will agree that at exit, especially when ouside or outside the airplane door, your brain is highly concentrated. I found that disturbing at a moment of extreme focus to deal with such a variety of count down when the reflexes of "old count down" are still present. Would it be good to have a standard way of count down for group jumps ? I understand that the hot shot jumpers bring their new found way for calling the exit but when organizing jumpers of different habit and experience, I wonder if that way is really efficient when fraction of a second counts.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[skydivecat 3]

Most people do counts however works best for them or their team. As long as it is communicated to everyone and practiced in the mock up beforehand, I've never had any problems.

I fly IC for my team in 4 way, I do the count that in most comfortable for me and works best with my team. If I try to change that when jumping with others it leads to more of a mess as it will go against my muscle memory that I have dialed in for the majority of my jumps.

If someone else is giving the count, I adapt to however they are comfortable. Whoever is giving the count should do whatever they are best at/most comfortable with for the launch to be successful. That is my very low level experience at any rate

[JWest 0]

From my experience the shake comes from the furthest away person to let the counter know everyone is ready. Then it's a ready, set, go with whatever appendage if free for that exit formation.

[skydivecat 3]

^now that is just funny

[JWest 0]

Care to elaborate?

[ebusto 0]

I like shake, down, go.

I think shaking is highly unambiguous, and the down allows everyone to get more poised, at least for a freefly exit.

[sammielu 3]

IMO, counts vary for the type of formation/exit planned. As long as everyone can see the count, and it's a slow obvious count that has ideally been mocked up, it works.

However, sometimes exits are poorly engineered and/or practiced so they don't always work.

[jonstark 8]

erdnarob

I understand that the hot shot jumpers bring their new found way for calling the exit but when organizing jumpers of different habit and experience, I wonder if that way is really efficient when fraction of a second counts.

Have you also noticed that there are far fewer well executed exits with today's "counts"?

Fekkin full faced helmets. Grumble grumble. I miss kiss passes too!

Jon

[skyjumpenfool 2]

JWest

Care to elaborate?

We use Ready, Set, Go.... but we leave on Ready just to see who's paying attention.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[CSpenceFLY 1]

We change for every exit to weed out the slow people.

[riggerrob 558]

For accompanied freefall, we teach the student to lead the exit count. We use: eye contact, look forward, out, in out. We also teach the student to use his/her for timing: breath out during the initial "out" movement. Breath in during the "in" movement and breath out during the final "out" (go) movement.
Breathing helps steady the pace of the three separate movements.
Depending upon airplane type, the movements are head-wave, hand-wave, leg-swing, etc. The more large muscles involved, the better.

[peek 20]

erdnarob

... I have seen at least 3 types of count down including : shake, down, up ...

That is certainly my least favorite! I think the easiest count to interpret includes 3 alternating motions so that the cadence can be more easily determined. After all, we generally teach students an up-down-up or out-in-out count.

As far as I can tell, shaking came about because of the use of full-face helmets, but if the person giving the count has an open-face, well, I can think of better counts.

[wmw999 2,116]

I used to favor "one potato, two potato, three potato, four. Five potato, six potato, out the fuckin' door."

That said, as long as the person giving the count remembers they're probaby giving it for at least one person who's a little slow, and at least one who's not paying as much attention as they should, it'll probably be OK. I.e. completely unambiguous, with clear motion.

Remember that short front and rear floaters might not be able to see around other floaters; tall inside jumpers may be trying to guess based on feet. Anything that allows the jumpers to react to the count-giver, rather than others' reactions.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jdewey95 0]

wmw999

one potato, two potato, three potato, four. Five potato, six potato, out the fuckin' door.

Haha thats awesome

[Zlew 0]

There are some cool stories on how some of the exit counts came to be (like moving the count to the inside for 4 Way).

As a camera guy who shoots lots of teams... counts are far from standardized. Some are inside, some our outside. Some are a 3 part count (ready steady go) some are 4 part (shake and some variation of ready steady go). Some have a leg count... some don't. The pace and cadence is always different..

For me- Leg counts are the best and u can usually figure them out without having lots of practice with that individual count.

For fun jumping (or team) do your practice exits at the mockup, and do them right! Do the count just like you would and have everyone move just like they would (not ready set go...everyone kinda slowly walks away from the mockup). When you do your count in the airplane... do it at the same pace/cadence you will do it for real (my team right now does it significantly faster in the plane than on the exit...grrrr. :) ).

[Zlew 0]

JWest

From my experience the shake comes from the furthest away person to let the counter know everyone is ready.

Correct- For things like 16 way, the climbout takes a long time, and the person giving the count can be 2-3 rows in front of the last people to get in position. some sort of shake or bump to let the person giving the count know everyone is ready is common.

Edit to add-
As a camera guy, I like the shake also on smaller formations (4way) with the count coming from inside. On some exits, I can't see the count at all because of how they are lined up in the door. Many times I can pick up the shake. I may still have to just go when they go...but at least I have a heads up that the count has started.

[JohnMitchell 14]

For belly flying, I prefer the old down-up-downandout of the "ready-set-go" count. It telegraphs well, others can pick up the motion for a smoother exit, and it gives the outside floaters the "set and a half" beat to leave a touch early.

[jeggum 0]

I am mostly speaking from a belly flying standpoint (as it seems the thread mostly pertains to) as vertical flying is another discussion. While I agree with others that there is some variable that is determined mostly by the organizer and/or person giving the count as to what has worked best in their (hopefully) vast experience and what they are comfortable with (IMO much more important then one or more people not giving the count). Think about it, if you are use to a particular count and all you have to do is leave at the right time, it is much harder for the person giving the count to change the routine that may be just as ingrained. Some of the variables being the size of actual chunk/formation being launched vs people inside/outside the door leaving on the count but not interfering with the launched formation, all jumpers experience, etc. In 4-way the shake is effective more as a mindset and is not necessarily part of the count and deserves a discussion of its own so in this reply I am mostly thinking of larger launched groups where a round is likely to be the launched formation... If you are launching a 8-way springbok you probably don't need this discussion! IMO a shake is a little ridiculous as it cannot be conveyed effectively on the outside of a plane where everyone is moving to get into position. The outside center (OC) is the best place for the count to come from as they are best seen by everyone. They are also the last to get out so everyone else should be getting settled. The OC looks to the rear and establishes eye contact, next to the front again with eye contact. It is noted that when you establish eye contact it means you are ready, do not look to the OC until you are. Once contact is made you are responsible for staying "ready". Last the OC looks inside for eye contact (which are the last to move into position) and then starts the count. It begins with OC slight pause to settle and reset. The count needs to be seen by everyone and it is a best practice to preload the weight of the leg pushing off on "set" (that goes for everyone on every launch). Again this depends on person giving the count but I have found a large head movement downward (like a big head nod) for ready, then left trailing leg (weight on right leg with body facing realitive wind) large knee movement up almost like kneeing the inside center and head moving up at the same time for set and obviously leaving the plane on go. The count is given at a consistent brisk but not fast pace as this would minimize time allowed for leaving early or late (I know you are now trying to chime in about floaters but that is yet again for another discussion). Ready, set, go is also communicated verbally but is not necessarily heard by everyone. If this is long winded you probably are not taking enough time to mock and prepare your launch. Let's not forget that it is the biggest thing that will determine the rest of the skydives success! The next discussion should be everyone's job leaving the plane for a successful launch.

[doog 0]

At home we use ready, set, go, but I find that when I travel to bigger DZs every organizer seems to have a version. When in doubt, revert to what you were taught...Eat, Fuck, Skydive.

DOOG
Muff 846
All you people are here to make sure I have a good time.

[SmokeJumper 0]

wmw999

I used to favor "one potato, two potato, three potato, four. Five potato, six potato, out the fuckin' door."

You made my day.

For side door aircraft on group loads, we use ready-set-go with leg swing.
For tailgate aircraft, shake-down-up/go.

[riggerrob 558]

"How's yo mama?"
"HOT!"
Then begin the out-in-out count/head swing.

[dpreguy 14]

One potato...
Then there is the Elvis exit: One for the money, two for the show, three to get ready then go cat go.
(it doesn't work)

[Rick 67]

JohnMitchell

For belly flying, I prefer the old down-up-downandout of the "ready-set-go" count. It telegraphs well, others can pick up the motion for a smoother exit, and it gives the outside floaters the "set and a half" beat to leave a touch early.

this is my preferred method. I like to get the out-in-out motion going. It seems to make for a more "together" exit.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[catfishhunter 1]

Rhythm. I am a leg kick guy. look in eye contact then out in out rocking rhythm easy for everyone to move together. The head shake down up down or up down up etc doesn't have rhythm that moves the chunk OUT the door without some practice. Out in Out is easy because well your moving OUT the door...

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