gowlerk 1,905 #76 January 5, 2022 17 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: I chose Edward as my Confirmation name at the Church of the Transfiguration in San Jose, CA. Does that make your initials J.E.W.? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #77 January 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, BIGUN said: But what if religion IS your skin color. I'm not sure we're ready for TransBlack as a race. But you go, girl. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #78 January 5, 2022 1 minute ago, gowlerk said: Does that make your initials J.E.W.? Yep. I had a wry sense of humor even as a wee one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #79 January 5, 2022 49 minutes ago, BIGUN said: Morning, Do you denigrate all African-Americans because of a few thugs in Chicago, LA, NY, etc.? No. I also don't denigrate all religions or religious people. But I have no issues pointing out the hypocrisy, blatant ignorance or outright stupidity when it shows up. One place that sort of shit is showing up a lot lately is the Herman Cain Awards. People refusing the vax because it's the "Mark Of The Beast" (you know, like QR codes, credit cards, barcodes and a zillion other things were). Many of these same people intentionally place the 'mark' of a guy who sure fits the description of the anti-christ right on their foreheads (where the actual Mark is supposed to be placed). People calling for "Prayer Warriors" to 'storm the gates of Heaven' with prayers. As if the number of people praying, or when they pray makes any difference. These 'warriors' also pray very specifically for things (improved O2 saturation, lowered blood pressure, increased urine output, bowel movements - no joke) because their omniscient, all powerful God needs their direction to know what to do. And, my personal favorite, they claim to be 'vaxed in the blood of Jesus'. Completely ignoring the fact that Jesus' blood allows the forgiveness of your sins after you die. Protection while you're still alive - zero. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,120 #80 January 5, 2022 My mother's take (she was not the religious one in our family) was that a child, in order to make an informed decision, needs to be exposed to religion. Because it's easier to fall away from the church than to join it (at least in a mobile society, and we moved a lot when i was a kid), and young people in their formative years should be exposed to the harder-but-good options by their parents, so that they have the opportunity to form habits. As soon as we were confirmed, she quit going Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,051 #81 January 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: bowel movements - no joke) I've heard people at boogie pray after a night of partying to stop having bowel movements so they could get on a load (no pun intended). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,905 #82 January 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, wmw999 said: My mother's take (she was not the religious one in our family) was that a child, in order to make an informed decision, needs to be exposed to religion. Because it's easier to fall away from the church than to join it (at least in a mobile society, and we moved a lot when i was a kid), and young people in their formative years should be exposed to the harder-but-good options by their parents, so that they have the opportunity to form habits. As soon as we were confirmed, she quit going Wendy P. My children were raised completely outside of any religion. The only downside to that I have found is a small amount of regret that they have little to no knowledge of the common fables of the bible. They seem to have no regrets at all. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,297 #83 January 5, 2022 Is that how she explained it when you were 8 or later on when she felt bad? My dear Ma' had a much more concise and, then understandable, way of 'splaining why I was going. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #84 January 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, wmw999 said: My mother's take (she was not the religious one in our family) was that a child, in order to make an informed decision, needs to be exposed to religion. Because it's easier to fall away from the church than to join it (at least in a mobile society, and we moved a lot when i was a kid), and young people in their formative years should be exposed to the harder-but-good options by their parents, so that they have the opportunity to form habits. As soon as we were confirmed, she quit going Wendy P. I can see exactly the same logic in promoting the exposure of a child to Grimm fairy tales. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,905 #85 January 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, kallend said: I can see exactly the same logic in promoting the exposure of a child to Grimm fairy tales. We were poor. We only has Aesop's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #86 January 5, 2022 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: My mother's take (she was not the religious one in our family) was that a child, in order to make an informed decision, needs to be exposed to religion. Because it's easier to fall away from the church than to join it (at least in a mobile society, and we moved a lot when i was a kid), and young people in their formative years should be exposed to the harder-but-good options by their parents, so that they have the opportunity to form habits. As soon as we were confirmed, she quit going Wendy P. I stopped before confirmation. Yet somehow the church had no problems taking my money to have my (first) marriage in the church. As long as I pinky swore to really do my confirmation after the wedding and of course "donated" a bit more than the recommended "donation" for a wedding. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #87 January 5, 2022 2 hours ago, kallend said: I can see exactly the same logic in promoting the exposure of a child to Grimm fairy tales. I'd be against that. Some of his tales are NOT for children. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #88 January 5, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, JoeWeber said: People don't often quit religion, or change their faith system, because their current faith angered them. Mostly they just scoff, hang in there Sounds about right. It's unlikely that we'd ever see anything like the reformation again, and any protestant divisions since then have mostly been based on minor doctrinal issues rather than social issues or outright 'heresy.' But NBC's Meet the Press did a piece on what I'd call the "spectrum of evangelicals" where they focused on the two ends of that spectrum. The evangelical on the more 'passive' end made the point that the easy thing to do is just say that he's not an evangelical anymore, but he doesn't, which sort of speaks to your point. https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/evangelicals-the-bible-belt-is-unbuckling-123781701521 I guess another way to give this a little more perspective is to use Phil's post about how 40% of republicans said that the violence on Jan 6 was acceptable. Even if that's true in the most extreme sense of the word "violence," how many of that 40% is evangelical, and then how many of those are on the far right of the evangelical spectrum depicted in the NBC feature linked above. . .and then how many of those actually want violence? Edited January 5, 2022 by Coreece Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #89 January 5, 2022 Morning, Do you denigrate all African-Americans because of a few thugs in Chicago, LA, NY, etc.? It's a lot easier to change religions than your skin colour though... I don't think that's what he's talking about, but to your point, I suppose you could look at religion on a spectrum similar to gender and how it's exhibited over time in a variety of ways, and how social/political constructs/ideologies may affect that development. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,905 #90 January 5, 2022 2 hours ago, SkyDekker said: I stopped before confirmation. Yet somehow the church had no problems taking my money to have my (first) marriage in the church. As long as I pinky swore to really do my confirmation after the wedding and of course "donated" a bit more than the recommended "donation" for a wedding. Everything has a price. You have to service your market to continue in business. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #91 January 5, 2022 3 hours ago, billvon said: I'd be against that. Some of his tales are NOT for children. Same is true of a lot of Bible stories too. The ones they don't tell in Sunday School. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,051 #92 January 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Coreece said: I don't think that's what he's talking about, but to your point, I suppose you could look at religion on a spectrum similar to gender and how it's exhibited over time in a variety of ways, and how social/political constructs/ideologies may affect that development. Bottom Line: One should treat race, creed, religion. gender, with respect. This country is going to shit for one reason and one reason only - we have lost our sense of decency towards others. We spend more time finding the minority of bad in a group, than we do the majority of good. Two valuable lessons: If you don't have anything nice to say; keep your mouth closed. If you're not willing to say it to their face; then don't say it at all. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #93 January 5, 2022 12 minutes ago, BIGUN said: If you don't have anything nice to say; keep your mouth closed. If you're not willing to say it to their face; then don't say it at all. So be politically correct? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,051 #94 January 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: So be decent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #95 January 5, 2022 1 minute ago, BIGUN said: In your opinion, when was this sense of decency lost? Personally, I think there is a very long history of countries, including the US, not being decent. What is "new" is more people being vocal about past indecency and lots of people being upset their beloved country wasn't all rainbows and unicorns for ever and ever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #96 January 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Personally, I think there is a very long history of countries, including the US, not being decent. What is "new" is more people being vocal about past indecency and lots of people being upset their beloved country wasn't all rainbows and unicorns for ever and ever. He's not talking about geopolitics. He's talking about how people treat each other within a community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,051 #97 January 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: In your opinion, when was this sense of decency lost? April 20, 1979 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #98 January 5, 2022 If in fact the country is under attack, i.e. "going to sh*t". The countries institutions of law and democracy subject to corrupting forces from within. 45 minutes ago, BIGUN said: ...Two valuable lessons: If you don't have anything nice to say; keep your mouth closed. If you're not willing to say it to their face; then don't say it at all. Those lessons become moot. It becomes the incumbent duty of every good citizen to come to the defense of their countries righteous ideals.Which is not to say that courteous debate, debate with respect. Should not be the first option. But when debate is a sham exercise. When lies, obfuscation and obstruction the new norm.The dutiful and brave must stand, must act. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,120 #99 January 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: If in fact the country is under attack, i.e. "going to sh*t". The countries institutions of law and democracy subject to corrupting forces from within. Those lessons become moot. It becomes the incumbent duty of every good citizen to come to the defense of their countries righteous ideals.Which is not to say that courteous debate, debate with respect. Should not be the first option. But when debate is a sham exercise. When lies, obfuscation and obstruction the new norm.The dutiful and brave must stand, must act. I think that's what the Q-tips think, too. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,051 #100 January 5, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: Those lessons become moot. It becomes the incumbent duty of every good citizen to come to the defense of their countries righteous ideals.Which is not to say that courteous debate, debate with respect. Should not be the first option. Phil, we were talking about respecting other cultures to include Christianity, Islam Judaism, Hindu, etc. etc. EDIT: Ummm yeah, what Bill said. Edited January 5, 2022 by BIGUN Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites