brenthutch 383 #1 Posted December 31, 2021 Here is a quick look as 2021 comes to an end, let’s hope we can learn from our mistakes https://junkscience.com/2021/12/unsung-zeroes-the-top-10-under-reported-climate-flops-of-2021/ eagerly awaiting the attacks on the messenger instead of addressing the message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 765 #2 December 31, 2021 I saw this title and just assumed it was a list of your posts from the past 12 months Happy New Years! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #3 December 31, 2021 #10 is all most really care about. That and “owning the libs.” Just like diabetics who sit back in their chairs sucking down a soda and want better meds Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #4 December 31, 2021 Whatever you do Brent - don't look up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 420 #5 December 31, 2021 4 hours ago, lippy said: I saw this title and just assumed it was a list of your posts from the past 12 months That would be "logic fails" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,294 #6 December 31, 2021 6 hours ago, brenthutch said: Here is a quick look as 2021 comes to an end, let’s hope we can learn from our mistakes https://junkscience.com/2021/12/unsung-zeroes-the-top-10-under-reported-climate-flops-of-2021/ eagerly awaiting the attacks on the messenger instead of addressing the message You having cold flashes again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #7 January 1, 2022 20 hours ago, billvon said: Whatever you do Brent - don't look up. Just because an acorn lands on your head doesn’t mean the sky is falling. Happy New Year Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,116 #8 January 1, 2022 On the other hand, if you’re the guy in the reinforced doorway when the building collapses, that doesn’t mean there wasn’t any damage. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #9 January 1, 2022 Quick; Someone explain to all the people in Superior CO and Louisville CO who just received their first measurable snow December 31, a day after a wildfire tore through, that there is no climate change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #10 January 1, 2022 26 minutes ago, ryoder said: Quick; Someone explain to all the people in Superior CO and Louisville CO who just received their first measurable snow December 31, a day after a wildfire tore through, that there is no climate change. Not all wildfires are "wild". https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/19/us/california-wildfires-gary-stephen-maynard.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #11 January 1, 2022 25 minutes ago, ryoder said: Quick; Someone explain to all the people in Superior CO and Louisville CO who just received their first measurable snow December 31, a day after a wildfire tore through, that there is no climate change. That’s an easy one, the West Coast is hogging all of the snow. https://abcnews.go.com/US/lake-tahoe-sees-16-feet-snow-december-crushing/story?id=81986675 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #12 January 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, airdvr said: Not all wildfires are "wild". https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/19/us/california-wildfires-gary-stephen-maynard.html Red herring - not in the slightest bit relevant to the CO fire that destroyed hundreds of houses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #13 January 1, 2022 1 minute ago, kallend said: Red herring - not in the slightest bit relevant to the CO fire that destroyed hundreds of houses. I didn't realize there was already proof that it wasn't arson. Care to show me where you got that info? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #14 January 1, 2022 1 minute ago, airdvr said: I didn't realize there was already proof that it wasn't arson. Care to show me where you got that info? Burden of proof is on you - you made the (implied) claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #15 January 1, 2022 I made no claim. I simply pointed out that fires aren't always wild. That might be the case here, might not. One of the things that bothers me all the time is how certain you all are that it couldn't be anything other than climate change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #16 January 1, 2022 Initial blame was on high winds causing power lines to spark, but Xcel investigated and found no evidence of such. Meanwhile someone post cellphone video from a car stopped at the intersection of 93 & 170 showing a small tool shed burning on the NE corner of the intersection around the time the fire started. This is at the upwind edge of the suspected location it started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #17 January 1, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, airdvr said: I made no claim. I simply pointed out that fires aren't always wild. That might be the case here, might not. What started it, and why it happened are two different issues. This is a suburban area, with insufficient vegetation to maintain a wildfire were it not for 2 things that combined to enable it: 1. No snow whatsoever this winter until the day after the fire, leaving all the dead, dried out grasses exposed. 2. Winds maintaining 60+ mph, and gusting to 90+. The combination enabled burning materials to to travel long distances to be deposited on new flammable areas. For example the fire initially swept into Superior, and then jumped a six-lane divided highway (US36) to set Louisville on fire. What stopped the fire was when the winds died off at dusk. Edited January 1, 2022 by ryoder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #18 January 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, ryoder said: What started it, and why it happened are two different issues. This is a suburban area, with insufficient vegetation to maintain a wildfire were it not for 2 things that combined to enable it: 1. No snow whatsoever this winter until the day after the fire, leaving all the dead, dried out grasses exposed. 2. Winds maintaining 60+ mph, and gusting to 90+. The combination enabled burning materials to to travel long distances to be deposited on new flammable areas. For example the fire initially swept into Superior, and then jumped a six-lane divided highway (US36) to set Louisville on fire. What stopped the fire was when the winds died off at dusk. OK...but you aren't able to equate that scenario to climate change. sometimes it doesn't snow. Grass dries out and winds blow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #19 January 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, airdvr said: OK...but you aren't able to equate that scenario to climate change. sometimes it doesn't snow. Grass dries out and winds blow. The city/county of Denver (17 miles South) just broke two records for, latest first snowfall, and consecutive days without snow: Source: https://www.weather.gov/bou/DenverSnowLessStreaks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #20 January 1, 2022 36 minutes ago, airdvr said: I didn't realize there was already proof that it wasn't arson. Care to show me where you got that info? It is being blamed on high winds and damaged powerlines along with a wet spring followed by an extremely dry summer and fall. Even if arson was involved it would only be a part of the picture. You are asking for proof? I'm sure you know that it is impossible to prove a negative. https://www.npr.org/2021/12/31/1069416715/colorado-marshall-fire-caused-by-high-winds-drought Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #21 January 1, 2022 (edited) 42 minutes ago, airdvr said: One of the things that bothers me all the time is how certain you all are that it couldn't be anything other than climate change. Everything weather related is now instantly blamed on climate change. I get what your frustration is. How can you possibly know the exact cause of a single event? So instead of that consider the steady and provable increase in CO2 levels, the steady and provable increase in ocean temps, and the steady and provable decrease in the size of glaciers. Don't get distracted, keep your eyes on the ball. Edited January 1, 2022 by gowlerk 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #22 January 1, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ryoder said: Initial blame was on high winds causing power lines to spark, but Xcel investigated and found no evidence of such. Meanwhile someone post cellphone video from a car stopped at the intersection of 93 & 170 showing a small tool shed burning on the NE corner of the intersection around the time the fire started. This is at the upwind edge of the suspected location it started. And the burning shed video, which I saw on Reddit yesterday, has made it to mainstream: https://kdvr.com/news/local/could-this-burning-shed-be-the-source-of-the-marshall-fire/ The car was headed East at this intersection: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9536962,-105.2322947,3a,75y,89.45h,87.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swXUzZZP30Tajy1weuLkSSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 ETA: This was the source of the video posted at 1708 on the day of the fire: Edited January 1, 2022 by ryoder Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #23 January 1, 2022 1 hour ago, airdvr said: I didn't realize there was already proof that it wasn't arson. Care to show me where you got that info? The cause of the fire isn't anywhere near as relevant as the speed that it spread and the damage it did. Something like 97% are started by people. Some accidently, some intentionally, some negligently. Climate change doesn't cause the fires. It doesn't start the fires. But they sure seem to be bigger and more destructive than they used to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 908 #24 January 1, 2022 19 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: The cause of the fire isn't anywhere near as relevant as the speed that it spread and the damage it did. Something like 97% are started by people. Some accidently, some intentionally, some negligently. Climate change doesn't cause the fires. It doesn't start the fires. But they sure seem to be bigger and more destructive than they used to be. Increased humidity, increased instability, from climate change can cause more lightning. Otherwise I agree with everything. AFAIK there should have been snow on the ground in that area this time of year. At least that was reported in several news dispatches. Be it loss of wildlife, human life, or homes wildfires are bad news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,621 #25 January 2, 2022 I suppose one of our deniers will be along to tell us that the current January 2 tornado watch in KY, TN and AL is due to arson, along with the record breaking December 2021 tornado outbreak there. Couldn't possibly be climate change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites