Pfizer’s COVID pill

[ryoder 1,381]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

I wonder how many of our senators and representatives have even heard of Bayes?  MTG maybe 

She may have heard about it while doing her lab work with peach-tree dishes.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

2 hours ago, billeisele said:

Hmmm....then please share your expertise.

I'm aware that holes can be put in the data. One big one is that there's no other background info on age, other medical conditions, age, pre-existing medical issues, variants. etc, etc. Regardless of that, the deaths are categorized as COVID not old age, heart attack, cancer or anything else. I could only quote what their data provided. And the July 2021 statement was before we knew what we know now. But the truth is there was enough info 14 months ago for us to know it was not an accurate statement.

The point was simple. The Pres has lied and continues to lie, and that undermines confidence in what's being stated.

Hi Bill,

In your opinion, who lies more:  Former Pres Trump or Pres Biden?

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,254]

On 10/24/2022 at 1:26 AM, wolfriverjoe said:

I also strongly suspect he knows what VAERS is and does (and doesn't do).

He should know that the data is unverified. ANYONE can report ANYTHING.

The site itself says so. 

That's not even really the point. Imagine if the vaccination rate was 100%, and imagine if the VAERS reporting rate was 100% with all real information.

You'd be getting reports of every single major illness suffered by every single person in the country over a window of several months. Man, that vaccine would look terrifying if you didn't understand what was really hapening.

[jakee 1,254]

6 hours ago, billeisele said:

The Pres needs to stop lying. Those type statements undermine the confidence in the public health infrastructure. Honest and accurate info is needed.

The Pres needs to stop saying what he said in summer 2021 because what's happening in fall 2022 is different? 

I'm going to take a WAG that he has stopped saying it, otherwise you'd be using a newer quote...

[billvon 2,384]

8 hours ago, billeisele said:

The Pres needs to stop lying. Those type statements undermine the confidence in the public health infrastructure. Honest and accurate info is needed.

How odd that you never took issue with a president who said that COVID would just go away in the spring, and that if people supported him they wouldn't wear masks.  His lies led to about 400,000 excess deaths.

Could it be that you have a double standard here? 

Quote

currently, the majority of COVID deaths are with people that took the shot and/or  are fully boosted.

So here's a question for you.

80% of the people in the US are vaccinated against COVID to some degree.  If 60% of COVID deaths are in vaccinated people (this is NOT an accurate number, it is an example) - does the vaccine reduce death rates or not?

 

Quote

Minnesota, population 5.7 million, does a great job with data collection. Their vaccination and fatality data is: 43% of the population is fully boosted, 29% vaccinated and/or partially boosted, and 28% are unvaxed. Fully boosted are 68% of deaths, partial are 14% of deaths and unvaxed 18% of deaths.

All this says is it's impossible to state that vaccination and boosting stops COVID or that COVID deaths are preventable. Yep, it may prevent some deaths but there is no data that provides that info because it's not collected. 

OK.  So I went to the source for that.  Here's the actual data:

Infection rate:
No/partial vaccination 20/100K
Full vaccination 11/100K
Full vaccination + boost 7/100K

Death rate young
No/partial vaccination.5/100K
Full vaccination .1/100K
Boosted 0/100K

Death rate middle age
No/partial vaccination 3.6/100K
Full vaccination .6/100K
Boosted .3/100K

Death rate old
Not fully vaccinated 32/100K
Full vaccinated 5.7/100K
Boosted 2.7/100K

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbt.html

So:

1) Yes you can conclude that vaccinations greatly reduce the incidence of both infection and death.
2) Given that you misrepresented the Minnesota numbers above, why should we take your OUTRAGE! over someone's dishonesty seriously?  You did something very similar.

 

[billeisele 122]

17 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

In your opinion, who lies more:  Former Pres Trump or Pres Biden?

Jerry Baumchen

Wow - loaded question with plenty of issues on both sides of the political spectrum. Based on the fact that Trump never shut up, and that was probably his downfall, he wins that question.

I'm focused on the current world. Trump is gone, hopefully not to return, and now we have Pres Biden, Kamala, Nancy and Chuck. When Kamala says, "The border is secure", and everyone clearly knows that it's not, that's a problem. It seems that they expect the citizenry to believe anything they say regardless of facts.

In a short time the electorate will send a signal about the current administration. We'll see.

 

[olofscience 420]

11 minutes ago, billeisele said:

In a short time the electorate will send a signal about the current administration. We'll see.

But how much of that 'signal' will be from actual facts and not from misinformation, like we've been seeing in this thread?

Popularity is just that, popularity.

[billeisele 122]

15 hours ago, jakee said:

The Pres needs to stop saying what he said in summer 2021 because what's happening in fall 2022 is different? 

I'm going to take a WAG that he has stopped saying it, otherwise you'd be using a newer quote...

You mean a "newer quote" like the one provided when Biden said on October 25, 2022, "Nearly every COVID death is preventable?" 

My point was apparently not clear enough, at least for you. The 2021 statement was false and known to be false when it was stated. Just like the 2022 statement is known to be false. 

[jakee 1,254]

7 minutes ago, billeisele said:

You mean a "newer quote" like the one provided when Biden said on October 25, 2022, "Nearly every COVID death is preventable?" 

My point was apparently not clear enough, at least for you. The 2021 statement was false and known to be false when it was stated. Just like the 2022 statement is known to be false. 

If you look at the real Minnesota data that Bill provided, vs the inaccurate data that you lied about, there is an enormous difference between boosted and not vaccinated death rate. Whether it qualifies as 'nearly every' is simply a subjective judgement. 

Obviously you didn't feel it was clear that he was lying or you wouldn't have felt the need to include a far older statement based on out of date information.

[billvon 2,384]

3 hours ago, billeisele said:

My point was apparently not clear enough, at least for you. The 2021 statement was false and known to be false when it was stated. Just like the 2022 statement is known to be false. 

Nearly every COVID death is preventable.  He was correct in his 2022 statement.  I posted the proof above, from the very state you were talking about.  Young people - massive improvement; deaths don't even show up on the graphs any more for vaccinated people.  Middle age people - factor of 12 reduction in deaths.  Old people - again a factor of 12 reduction in deaths.

So yes, if 11 out of 12 deaths can be prevented by vaccination, then nearly every death IS preventable.  Based on the facts of what is actually happening, not what FOX News is saying.

Your posts are a great example of how easy it is to mislead people with the right misinformation.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

4 hours ago, billvon said:

Nearly every COVID death is preventable.  He was correct in his 2022 statement.  I posted the proof above, from the very state you were talking about.  Young people - massive improvement; deaths don't even show up on the graphs any more for vaccinated people.  Middle age people - factor of 12 reduction in deaths.  Old people - again a factor of 12 reduction in deaths.

So yes, if 11 out of 12 deaths can be prevented by vaccination, then nearly every death IS preventable.  Based on the facts of what is actually happening, not what FOX News is saying.

Your posts are a great example of how easy it is to mislead people with the right misinformation.

Hi Bill,

IMO the bigger problem is how widespread it is.

They see what they want to see.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

8 hours ago, billeisele said:

Wow - loaded question with plenty of issues on both sides of the political spectrum. Based on the fact that Trump never shut up, and that was probably his downfall, he wins that question.

I'm focused on the current world. Trump is gone, hopefully not to return, and now we have Pres Biden, Kamala, Nancy and Chuck. When Kamala says, "The border is secure", and everyone clearly knows that it's not, that's a problem. It seems that they expect the citizenry to believe anything they say regardless of facts.

In a short time the electorate will send a signal about the current administration. We'll see.

 

Hi Bill,

Then why are you quoting from what Pres. Biden said in 2021?

Either you are 'focused on the current world' or you are not.

You cannot have it both ways.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Re:  Trump is gone

If only.