29% of American adults

[BIGUN 1,053]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

But I wonder just what the rules are? Jeff Bezos pays essentially no taxes, did he claim status as a religious organization?

But he does and has paid a lot in taxes. The media just wants you to believe he doesn't. He claimed an income of ~6 billion over several years and paid income taxes of about a billion on that.  What the media is pointing at is his net worth of ~170 Billion - on paper. The problem is - that most of that worth is in stocks which are not recognized tender and can't be taxed until he exercises those stocks creating a taxable event. 

Concurrently, his organization generates about 90 Billion in tax revenue for the federal government per year from employees, suppliers, fuel, etc., etc.   

[ryoder 1,381]

21 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

But he does and has paid a lot in taxes. The media just wants you to believe he doesn't. He claimed an income of ~6 billion over several years and paid income taxes of about a billion on that.  What the media is pointing at is his net worth of ~170 Billion - on paper. The problem is - that most of that worth is in stocks which are not recognized tender and can't be taxed until he exercises those stocks creating a taxable event. 

Concurrently, his organization generates about 90 Billion in tax revenue for the federal government per year from employees, suppliers, fuel, etc., etc.   

Consider this from an article I was reading recently:

- Unrealized gains on stocks are not taxable, until you sell them.

- Unrealized gains in the value of your home are taxable, even if you have not sold your home. i.e. property tax.

Now which affects mostly the wealthy, and which affects mostly the middle class?

Edited December 15, 2021 by ryoder

[BIGUN 1,053]

7 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Unrealized gains in the value of your home are taxable, even if you have not sold your home.

The article sounds inaccurate. There is no unrealized gain tax. Just as there's no unrealized tax loss. You can't claim the loss on your house on your taxes either. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by BIGUN

[wmw999 2,120]

I think the thing about home tax is that property tax and school tax reflect the value of the home as it goes up, not what you paid for it, in most jurisdictions. Even when you built the house yourself (as my father did with a family property they bought for $500 in 1953 -- annual taxes on it now are well over 10 times that amount)

Wendy P.

[ryoder 1,381]

5 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

The article sounds inaccurate. There is no unrealized gain tax. Just as there's no unrealized tax loss. You can't claim the loss on your house on your taxes either. 

Edited to point out it was referring to property taxes, as Wendy said.

[winsor 186]

2 hours ago, BIGUN said:

That is not the point, Ken. Heathens can start a church and get the same tax advantages as churches of God. It's been tested in court and the heathens win.  Good morning. 

One example:

http://www.ourladyofperpetualexemption.com/

[Phil1111 910]

21 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

But he does and has paid a lot in taxes. The media just wants you to believe he doesn't. He claimed an income of ~6 billion over several years and paid income taxes of about a billion on that.  What the media is pointing at is his net worth of ~170 Billion - on paper. The problem is - that most of that worth is in stocks which are not recognized tender and can't be taxed until he exercises those stocks creating a taxable event. 

Concurrently, his organization generates about 90 Billion in tax revenue for the federal government per year from employees, suppliers, fuel, etc., etc.   

That is probably correct more or less. There is certainly nothing wrong with billionaires like Musk and Bezos driving economic growth. Even nothing wrong with Amazon's institutional efficiency driving little "mom and pop" business, out of business.

But the divergence in fair taxation starting with the Regan administration. Has driven a huge wedge in US society. With the rich paying far less than any other western country.

The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax a Propublica story. Which found that these ultra rich only paid "a true tax rate of only 3.4%."

[BIGUN 1,053]

4 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Edited to point out it was referring to property taxes, as Wendy said.

Ahh, OK. True. The tax assessment on the property value. 

 

17 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Now which affects mostly the wealthy, and which affects mostly the middle class?

Well, they both affect each class the same. Don't think Jeff or Bill ain't paying property taxes on their houses.

https://observer.com/2019/06/jeff-bezos-bill-gates-seattle-medina-home-property-tax/ 

[winsor 186]

49 minutes ago, kallend said:

Reading comprehension is important.  You should try it sometime.

 

Anyone that gives $ or time to any religious organization is gullible.

I put money in Salvation Army kettles.

The last time I checked, the Grand Poobah (or whatever) of the U.S. Salvation Army brought down something like $35,000 a year.

If someone is on Skid Row, they will clean them up, feed them, put them up, sober them up, and provide the means for them to turn their lives around.  I've seen it work in action.

They don't force their religious convictions on anyone, but they're happy to get people to whatever services they espouse.  The rest are afforded active A.A..

So I guess I give time and money to a religious organization.

They told me I was gullible, and I believed them.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[BIGUN 1,053]

6 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Even nothing wrong with Amazon's institutional efficiency driving little "mom and pop" business, out of business.

Well, that's more of a WalMart model. Amazon is actually a great conduit for small business growth. 

ETA: https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-releases/news-release-details/amazons-2021-small-business-empowerment-report-reveals-third

Edited December 15, 2021 by BIGUN

[ryoder 1,381]

16 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Ahh, OK. True. The tax assessment on the property value. 

 

Well, they both affect each class the same. Don't think Jeff or Bill ain't paying property taxes on their houses.

https://observer.com/2019/06/jeff-bezos-bill-gates-seattle-medina-home-property-tax/ 

"The median net worth of all Americans is $104,000. The median net worth excluding equity is $34,500 – which means home equity accounts for 66.83% of total net worth."

Source: https://wallethacks.com/average-net-worth-by-age-americans/

You think Jeff or Bill have 66.83% of total net worth in their house?

[JoeWeber 2,298]

59 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

But he does and has paid a lot in taxes. The media just wants you to believe he doesn't. He claimed an income of ~6 billion over several years and paid income taxes of about a billion on that.  What the media is pointing at is his net worth of ~170 Billion - on paper. The problem is - that most of that worth is in stocks which are not recognized tender and can't be taxed until he exercises those stocks creating a taxable event. 

Concurrently, his organization generates about 90 Billion in tax revenue for the federal government per year from employees, suppliers, fuel, etc., etc.   

All important points worthy of recognition and recital as the miserable bastard is dragged to the hangin' tree. The one thing that would help make the rest of us feel better, cause it ain't jealousy over his money don't you know, would be if stock used to acquire another company was heavily taxed at transfer and something similar to a property tax was levied on stock gains on stock held instead of capital gains tax at stock sale. Losses of course would need to be deductible. Also, we get to use his yacht sometimes.

[Phil1111 910]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Well, that's more of a WalMart model. Amazon is actually a great conduit for small business growth. 

ETA: https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-releases/news-release-details/amazons-2021-small-business-empowerment-report-reveals-third

Perhaps, but:

Amazon Scooped Up Data From Its Own Sellers to Launch Competing Products "Contrary to assertions to Congress, employees often consulted sales information on third-party vendors when developing private-label merchandise"

Amazon copied products and rigged search results to promote its own brands, documents show

Because of the USSC approvals and lobbyists antitrust laws in the US are weak. Supreme Court decision weakens FTC’s enforcement authority

 

[BIGUN 1,053]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

You think Jeff or Bill have 66.83% of total net worth in their house?

Your beef isn't with Jeff or Bill. Congress makes the laws. Write to them. Interesting to see how the left turns on one of their own just cause he did well. I don't begrudge anyone for becoming a millionaire or multi. They were willing to chunk it all - just to try. 

[ryoder 1,381]

2 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Your beef isn't with Jeff or Bill. Congress makes the laws. Write to them. Interesting to see how the left turns on one of their own just cause he did well. I don't begrudge anyone for becoming a millionaire or multi. They were willing to chunk it all - just to try. 

Where did I turn on Jeff or Bill? I did no such thing.

I am just pointing out how warped the tax system is in favor of people with a majority of their assets in investments.

[billvon 2,396]

6 minutes ago, ryoder said:

I am just pointing out how warped the tax system is in favor of people with a majority of their assets in investments.

Agreed there.  

Let's say you have ten million dollars at an investment house somewhere.  That will keep compounding over time.  You can move it all to an exchange fund and STILL not pay any taxes - and then the fund buys and sells the stocks for you.  No taxes on those transactions.

Then once the investment house has all that money, they will give you any loans you want (up to ten million) at super low interest rates - close to inflation.  So you tell your company "just give me stock options and forget the salary!"  Instead you get loans to pay your basic needs and never pay them back.  You live off loans for the rest of your life.  Never pay any tax.  The stock options sit there while the stock itself increases in value.  Again, since it's just an OPTION to buy the stock, no taxable events.

Then when you die all your stock goes through a re-basis - so your heirs won't pay any tax on them, either.  Of course, they have to pay off your loans (and exercise your shares) but with 25 million dollars in tax-free money, that's no problem.

Not everyone does that, of course, but it is an avenue many rich people use to pay very little income tax (or no tax at all) while accruing tens of millions.  Elon Musk did this one year and paid $0 income tax as a result.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I think the thing about home tax is that property tax and school tax reflect the value of the home as it goes up, not what you paid for it, in most jurisdictions. Even when you built the house yourself (as my father did with a family property they bought for $500 in 1953 -- annual taxes on it now are well over 10 times that amount)

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy,

Re:  Even when you built the house yourself (as my father did with a family property they bought for $500 in 1953 *

I did the same thing in the mid-70's.  I did about 85% of the building myself ( I also did all of the design ).  The largest mortgage we ever had was for $42,000.  Today that house is worth about $750,000 & the annual property taxes are about $6,200.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  IMO the American taxation system is one of the most unfair in the entire world.

* I paid about $5,200 for the bare land in 1973.

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Your beef isn't with Jeff or Bill. Congress makes the laws. Write to them. Interesting to see how the left turns on one of their own just cause he did well. I don't begrudge anyone for becoming a millionaire or multi. They were willing to chunk it all - just to try. 

Jeff and Bill and their cronies include Congress in their investments.

[BIGUN 1,053]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

Jeff and Bill and their cronies include Congress in their investments.

I get that it's easy to hate Jeff, Bill & Elon, but they do a lot of good for the world too. I have reached out to Jeff on more than one occasion to help a disabled veteran and he's responded and helped in less than eight hours.  My charity is St. Jude Research Hospital. Not only do I send them money, but use AmazonSmile with SJRH as my  preferred charity - for each purchase I make; SJRH gets a small portion. The number of people that do this with me has resulted in SJRH receiving $13,378,531.85 this year as of November. 

All US charities have received $285,795,312.80 as of August 2021

All worldwide charities have received $321,230,298.08 as of August 2021

Yes, they push the metrics out to you. Do I begrudge any of them for making billions - no, not at all.

I was a damn good Operations Guy, but after awhile and some growth it becomes difficult to navigate the tax laws, the legal system, the government, the etc. So, I hired a CFO to navigate the taxes, an Attorney to navigate the legal system, a VP of HR to handle the jobs AND employment laws, and a lobbyist to navigate the government. This way I could focus on growth and doing our job well for our customers - which were the citizens of the US  

Don't hate them for being billionaires and using the system that congress creates - you voted for them. Hate them.    

[SkyDekker 1,121]

31 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

All US charities have received $285,795,312.80 as of August 2021

All worldwide charities have received $321,230,298.08 as of August 2021

Is that lifetime? If it is I would suggest that the middle class has donated much, much more as a percentage of their net worth over a lifetime.

[BIGUN 1,053]

2 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Is that lifetime?

The Smile program started in 2013, so it's since inception.

https://www.aboutamazon.com/impact/community/amazonsmile

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Since 2013 Jeff Bezos' net worth grew by $180 billion. So in those 8 year the charitable portion was about 0.18% of his growth in net-worth.

I definitely donate a lot more than Jeff Bezos based on those numbers and I think most middle class people do. Not sure this is a great example of his wonderful charitable work.

Edited December 16, 2021 by SkyDekker

[timski 80]

12 hours ago, Coreece said:

From the article:

"The path taken by Charles places her among the religiously unaffiliated -- the fastest-growing group in surveys asking Americans about their religious identity. They describe themselves as atheists, agnostics or “nothing in particular.”

But then here's how the article describe Charles:

"After leaving her New Jersey church three years ago, she identified as atheist, then agnostic, before embracing a spiritual but not religious life. In her dorm, she blends rituals at an altar, chanting Buddhist, Taoist and Hindu mantras and paying homage to her ancestors as she meditates and prays."

 

Furthermore:

"America’s nones vary widely, according to a recent poll by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. For example, 30% say they feel some connection to God or a higher power, and 19% say religion has some importance to them even though they have no religious affiliation.

About 12% describe themselves as religious and spiritual and 28% as spiritual but not religious. More than half describe themselves as neither."

 

So it looks like the number of nones is more like 15%, unless of course you find comfort in  identifying with the gullible.

Nature is my "religion" and the planet is my place of worship.  How's that grab ya? I love a good "christian" debate. 

[BIGUN 1,053]

1 minute ago, timski said:

Nature is my "religion" and the planet is my place of worship.  How's that grab ya? I love a good "christian" debate. 

Grabs fine. But, Spinoza did it first.  

[BIGUN 1,053]

5 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Since 2013 Jeff Bezos' net worth grew by $180 billion. So in those 8 year the charitable portion was about 0.18% of his growth in net-worth.

I definitely donate a lot more than Jeff Bezos based on those numbers and I think most middle class people do. Not sure this is a great example of his wonderful charitable work.

Doesn't include Bezo's Earth Fund and other charities.

https://apnews.com/article/amazoncom-inc-race-and-ethnicity-jeff-bezos-philanthropy-coronavirus-pandemic-56154051ca19fdd80c2fc003004702b0

Hate him if you want.