The real meaning of "Woke"

[gowlerk 1,904]

I'm starting to get a handle on what the right wing movement is really talking about when they voice the rallying call of being against the "Woke". It is all part of their fear of the changes in society leaving them behind as the culture changes away from the Euro-centric paternalistic system that has dominated for so long. On top of the huge upheaval being brought by the new information age and the power now wielded by those who run and participate in it. 

There is now serious talk in right wing circles about the need for American society to rally around one set of Christian Judeo faiths and to suppress any others who would dare to compete with it. This is rooted in the belief that the existing structure has brought prosperity and that the success is due to the superiority of the peoples who are racially similar to them. They sincerely believe and fear that the changes they can see coming in the racial and cultural mix that makes up America will result in a degradation of both moral and material standards that we enjoy. And yes, I do include the Canadian right wing in this as well.

In the end it is nothing more and nothing less than that.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

#1 - They can't stand the idea of competing on a 'level playing field'.

They refuse to acknowledge 'white privilege', yet also refuse to relinquish it.

 

This isn't new, but the way they go about it has evolved.

#2 - They absolutely can't stand the idea of 'other faiths' competing on a 'level playing field'.
Antisemitism goes back a looooooong way.
Anti-Islam does too, but gained a lot of traction since the Sept 11 attacks. 

Funny how they scream and cry that their '1st Amendment Rights' are being 'infringed' when a private entity (FB, Twitter, ect) censors their posts, yet make public calls for the government to 'establish a state religion'.

The hypocrisy is enraging. 
The sincerity is frightening.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/581443-michael-flynn-says-of-the-us-we-have-to-have-one-religion

[gowlerk 1,904]

4 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The hypocrisy is enraging. 
The sincerity is frightening.

Nice summation.

[winsor 186]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I'm starting to get a handle on what the right wing movement is really talking about when they voice the rallying call of being against the "Woke". It is all part of their fear of the changes in society leaving them behind as the culture changes away from the Euro-centric paternalistic system that has dominated for so long. On top of the huge upheaval being brought by the new information age and the power now wielded by those who run and participate in it. 

There is now serious talk in right wing circles about the need for American society to rally around one set of Christian Judeo faiths and to suppress any others who would dare to compete with it. This is rooted in the belief that the existing structure has brought prosperity and that the success is due to the superiority of the peoples who are racially similar to them. They sincerely believe and fear that the changes they can see coming in the racial and cultural mix that makes up America will result in a degradation of both moral and material standards that we enjoy. And yes, I do include the Canadian right wing in this as well.

In the end it is nothing more and nothing less than that.

A good indicator is 'Diversity, Equity and Inclusion.'

These things sound just peachy, but are not what they seem at first blush.  Imagine the L.A. Lakers being legally required to hire on the basis of demographics of the population, with appropriate percentages of short, uncoordinated people of various ethnicities and 'genders.'  I suppose I might go against my aversion to the sport enough to watch at least part of one game.

'Diversity, Equity and Inclusion' is anathema to my standards of Equal Rights, Equal Responsibilities, no more, no less.

Woke is entirely the result of good intentions = of the type with which the Road to Hell is made.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[wmw999 2,120]

9 minutes ago, winsor said:

'Diversity, Equity and Inclusion' is anathema to my standards of Equal Rights, Equal Responsibilities, no more, no less.

It's also short for "look in places you might not consider," and "the opinions of people who don't look like you also matter." It's all well and good to say that ad men should all be hard-smoking guys like the ones in Mad Men. However, women buy stuff. Minorities buy stuff. Women and minorities use the products of engineering -- maybe some people use those products in ways that all the alpha males didn't imagine. That doesn't even make them wrong -- it makes the people who only considered their own point of view wrong.

Wendy P.

[winsor 186]

26 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

It's also short for "look in places you might not consider," and "the opinions of people who don't look like you also matter." It's all well and good to say that ad men should all be hard-smoking guys like the ones in Mad Men. However, women buy stuff. Minorities buy stuff. Women and minorities use the products of engineering -- maybe some people use those products in ways that all the alpha males didn't imagine. That doesn't even make them wrong -- it makes the people who only considered their own point of view wrong.

Wendy P.

These things are all well and good.  The concept that Woke is anything other than Alpha White Male is grossly inaccurate.

Some Engineering Schools do their damndest to get the student body closer to 50:50, and too many well qualified females aren't interested.  Should standards be lowered to get unqualified women in?  Woke says yes, I say no.

There is a huge difference between having 'equal rights' and being 'the same' (news flash - men and women are, by and large, different).

'Equity' in the Woke sense is equal outcome regardless.  This has been tried, and the results are uniformly bad.  Doing the same thing and expecting different results is, well, "it's different this time!"

I grew up with the original Mad Men.  Things have changed massively on Madison Avenue since then, so fighting against those norms is tilting at windmills.

Art Nielsen's contribution to market research includes figuring out where the sales lie in a completely dispassionate manner.  The companies that utilize his paradigm tend to do well, and really couldn't care less about the specifics of ethnicity or gender except as it affects the bottom line.

Progress has been made, but rarely by 'Progressives."

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[gowlerk 1,904]

8 minutes ago, winsor said:

These things are all well and good.  The concept that Woke is anything other than Alpha White Male is grossly inaccurate.

Some Engineering Schools do their damndest to get the student body closer to 50:50, and too many well qualified females aren't interested.  Should standards be lowered to get unqualified women in?  Woke says yes, I say no.

There is a huge difference between having 'equal rights' and being 'the same' (news flash - men and women are, by and large, different).

'Equity' in the Woke sense is equal outcome regardless.  This has been tried, and the results are uniformly bad.  Doing the same thing and expecting different results is, well, "it's different this time!"

I grew up with the original Mad Men.  Things have changed massively on Madison Avenue since then, so fighting against those norms is tilting at windmills.

Art Nielsen's contribution to market research includes figuring out where the sales lie in a completely dispassionate manner.  The companies that utilize his paradigm tend to do well, and really couldn't care less about the specifics of ethnicity or gender except as it affects the bottom line.

Progress has been made, but rarely by 'Progressives."

 

BSBD,

Winsor

None of that stuff is what I am talking about. There is a movement to suppress the obvious changes coming by marginalizing anyone who is not of the correct mind and body. Do you remember the resistance to integration? Well, those people actually won for the the most part, but they want more.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/scary-future-american-right-national-conservatism-conference/620746/

Edited November 22, 2021 by gowlerk

[billvon 2,394]

4 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

They refuse to acknowledge 'white privilege', yet also refuse to relinquish it.

These are the people who say "I'm color blind.  I don't see race AT ALL.  So nothing need be done.  Indeed, if you try to get me to see that there have been injustices done to people of a different race - why, that's RACISM to claim that one race was treated differently!"

[winsor 186]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

These are the people who say "I'm color blind.  I don't see race AT ALL.  So nothing need be done.  Indeed, if you try to get me to see that there have been injustices done to people of a different race - why, that's RACISM to claim that one race was treated differently!"

Wrong, as usual.  It's RACISM to TREAT one race or another differently.

But you know that.

[billvon 2,394]

10 minutes ago, winsor said:

Wrong, as usual.  It's RACISM to TREAT one race or another differently.

You are correct; those people are indeed wrong.  Thank you for confirming that.

[billvon 2,394]

4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I'm starting to get a handle on what the right wing movement is really talking about when they voice the rallying call of being against the "Woke". It is all part of their fear of the changes in society leaving them behind as the culture changes away from the Euro-centric paternalistic system that has dominated for so long.

I would also suggest that this is nothing new.

The KKK was largely a reaction to blacks challenging the position of whites - sitting at their lunch counters, defiling their women and "taking over" their businesses.  They felt that if they could nip this in the bud, they could preserve their position in society.

The conservative right's attacks on gay rights came from a similar place, fortunately with less lynching and terrorist activity.  Here in CA the Mormon Church bankrolled the effort behind Prop 8, for example - they felt that if they could ban gay marriage in California, they could establish a "kind of firewall" that would save marriage from the onslaught of the immoral, godless gays.  They pulled off a lot of tricks to make it look like they were not actually supporting a political measure, including sending out a memo saying “no work will take place at the church, including no meeting there to hand out precinct walking assignments so as to not even give the appearance of politicking at the church."  (It's illegal for a church to do so.)

This is merely the latest instantiation of that position - people afraid of losing privileges they once held.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

31 minutes ago, billvon said:

The KKK was largely a reaction to blacks challenging the position of whites - sitting at their lunch counters, defiling their women and "taking over" their businesses.  They felt that if they could nip this in the bud, they could preserve their position in society.

Just like the only time the NRA championed restrictions on gun rights was when black people dared to openly carry guns.

[billvon 2,394]

15 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Just like the only time the NRA championed restrictions on gun rights was when black people dared to openly carry guns.

And none other than Ronald Reagan signed that anti-gun legislation just as fast as his shaking hand could move the pen. 

You see - BLACK people were carrying guns!  On the State Capitol grounds!  While Reagan was there!  Clearly emergency action was called for.  The Mulford Act was written and passed under the Urgency Statute, a provision that allowed for very rapid passage of new laws to meet an urgent threat - in this case, armed black men.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

And none other than Ronald Reagan signed that anti-gun legislation just as fast as his shaking hand could move the pen. 

You see - BLACK people were carrying guns!  On the State Capitol grounds!  While Reagan was there!  Clearly emergency action was called for.  The Mulford Act was written and passed under the Urgency Statute, a provision that allowed for very rapid passage of new laws to meet an urgent threat - in this case, armed black men.

But you see, there is no systemic racism and everybody gets the same opportunities.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

I grew up with the original Mad Men.  Things have changed massively on Madison Avenue since then, so fighting against those norms is tilting at windmills.

Funny thing is I’d bet all those old executives would swear they were hiring the best men for the job and the most suitable women for the typing pool.

2 hours ago, winsor said:

Equity' in the Woke sense is equal outcome regardless. 

Well sure, if you believe what a bunch of old conservative white men have to say about it. But I think that’s rather the point.

[billvon 2,394]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

But you see, there is no systemic racism and everybody gets the same opportunities.

Exactly.  Every resume is treated the same by all those white men who are 100% colorblind.  And if a study shows that common black names get interviews less often, why - that's CRT or woke madness or a joke or something.  Cancel it!  Get back to ignoring the problem because we're all completely colorblind.

[gowlerk 1,904]

Right-wing politics supports the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition.[4]: 693, 721 [5][6][7][8][9] Hierarchy and inequality may be seen as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or competition in market economies.[12][13][14] Right-wing politics are considered the counterpart to left-wing politics, and the left–right political spectrum is one of the most widely accepted political spectrums.[15]

The term right-wing can generally refer to the section of a political party or system that advocates free enterprise and private ownership, and typically favours socially traditional ideas.[16]

In Europe, economic conservatives are usually considered liberal, and the Right includes nationalists, idealists, nativist opponents of immigration,[17] religious conservatives, and, historically, a significant number of right-wing movements with anti-capitalist sentiments, including conservatives and fascists, who opposed contemporary capitalism because they believed that selfishness and excessive materialism were inherent in it.[18][19] In the United States, the Right includes both economic and social conservatives.[20]

 

Sounds about RIGHT!!   

   There is also the belief that anyone who would move to the left is just plain evil.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/july-august-2018/how-the-right-wing-convinces-itself-that-liberals-are-evil/

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by gowlerk

[Coreece 190]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:29 PM, gowlerk said:

None of that stuff is what I am talking about.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/scary-future-american-right-national-conservatism-conference/620746/

Well the natcon conference referenced in your link IS talking about that stuff.

 

On 11/22/2021 at 3:10 PM, gowlerk said:

There is now serious talk in right wing circles about the need for American society to rally around one set of Christian Judeo faiths and to suppress any others who would dare to compete with it. This is rooted in the belief that the existing structure has brought prosperity and that the success is due to the superiority of the peoples who are racially similar to them.

Even the author in your article said you're living in the 50s if you think America is going to return to christian dominance, and that the natcons are only a piece of a larger illiberal populist revolt that's strong and rising.

 

On 11/22/2021 at 3:10 PM, gowlerk said:

In the end it is nothing more and nothing less than that.

Here's their menu for the next election. 

https://nationalconservatism.org/natcon-2-2021/conference-schedule/

You might have to widen your range of cards to play, otherwise you risk getting blinded off.

 

They're banking on people getting hung up on just one of those issues.   Hell, I'm sure there's even something in there for you:

https://nationalconservatism.org/natcon-2-2021/presenters/ayaan-hirsi-ali/