Gerardo Flores, just filed the lawsuit in Monterey County Superior Court.

[Edjglass920 0]

Doug_Davis

******

Good for you. Seriously. Unfortunately not every DZ is using brand new properly inspected and maintenanced equipment. And they arent about to tell their students, "Hey this rig is 20 years old and has a few broken suspension lines due to age, and its due for a reserve repack but you should be fine." They want to get paid.
There are DZ's out there putting up students on F-111 chutes with way more than 500+ jumps on them. This seems to amaze some people, but it happens.

Setting all the rest of your post aside, do you really, REALLY believe they're REPACKING a canopy with broken suspension lines? I guess it's possible but I'm extremely skeptical.

As for F-111 canopies with over 500 jumps… so? I'm sure the Raven IV I used from jump 1 until jump 45 or so had substantially more than that, but it was safe and fine. Also prepared me well for the first time I did a chop with my own rig and found myself under an F-111 7cell.

In answer to your first question, did you go back and read the old thread? Look at the stills from the video?
The suspension lines were broken on BOTH risers as soon as the chute opened and since opening shock was negligible in the video I assume they were packed that way. Given how fuzzy and sketchy looking the risers appeared in the still shots Im not surprised.

Doug I have attached stills of the second it opens and flips him over. I could be wrong and hopefully an experienced rigger will either back this up or discredit it. I think what you are seeing is either an improvised break set, slider stay or break line grommets. Notice when it first opens you do not see those lines trailing but as soon as he releases the brake you do. I can swear I have seen these lines trailing in other videos. Also look in the still where his slider is open on the left side with the suspension lines separated. In my opinion the only reason it gets stuck and the lines look twisted is because that left brake line flopping in the breeze is holding it up. Like I said just trying to get some input, I could be wrong.

[Edjglass920 0]

Notice how those lines trailing look like they are tied around the suspension lines and not connected to the riser. Also do any of the suspension lines look broken at the top, no.

[Scrumpot 1]

And you can tell that these broken lines did not occur at/during the opening/bag-snatch/extraction based upon these screen-grabs, exactly how? Not being argumentative - simply asking, because that is what (by some) is trying to be asserted, and I'm sorry - I just don't see it (at least based solely upon this) that definitively.

Also, earlier - another poster attempts to dismiss/discount the presence of the secreted-in camera altogether as well. It has been awhile since I have seen the full video, but IIRC - even after this opening, and all these things (including broken lines) being so supposedly "clear" - - - instead of appropriately then/there dealing with them ...This jumper spends rather, significant time "geeking" / talking into his camera! So, how that is absolutely of NO factor either, and trying to dilly "dismiss" it as such - I also think does some disservice to those now, otherwise so far behind-the-curve, or not more familiar and informed (read: only now just otherwise learning of this/reading it here) as well.

I still don't see anything here that can definitively convince me that this rig was actually packed, and then put back into service WITH pre-existing, known already-broken suspension lines provided to the jumper; and that this can be used, at the absolute exclusion of all other possibilities, as basis - or for such absolute explanation/substantiation for such claims.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Edjglass920 0]

What I'm saying is that they don't look like broken suspension lines. For the record I mentioned in an earlier post that his dumbass was looking into the camera as if that was his emergency procedure. We are in agreement, at the point of opening shit can happen and he blows it by not taking action.

[RiggerLee 61]

So if you look at last pic. Look at the right rear riser. I think what you are seeing there is a broken line trailing behind the riser. There is the black of the riser. Above that is a lighter section. I believe what you are seeing is the slider bumper around the link and the lines. The short section of line trailing appears to be coming out of the top of the bumper just as you'd expect. If you look up at the canopy it looks like there is some thing trailing catching the light. Look at the canopy. you'll see a wrinkle where the cell is unsupported on the most inner C/D line between the center and the 5th cell. It looks to me like the canopy has a broken inner C/D line.

It's hard to tell what's going on on the other side. It looks like there is some kind of continuity problem below the slider but the canopy has managed to push it down to within 8 inches of the riser. I don't know what's trailing on that side. It could be the excess break line from the toggle, the slack stowed from the toggle or another broken line but it looks like it's originating from the toggle.

The canopy was actually flying fairly well. I think that if he had not decided to take a nap and flown the canopy it would have landed him just fine even as it was. In fact it did very well by him flying back and landing right on the field on a nice straight in approach. I can't imagine hoping for a better out come then that. His injuries were just what you would expect from a no flare landing. And this was a big rental/student rig. And people go out and buy some tiny little reserve and expect a Cypres to save them...

I'm half way across the country. I don't have the vid. I can't go through it one frame at a time. I haven't seen the gear and to the best of my knowledge neither has any one here. Every thing I say is straight out of my ass.

There are some interesting questions but I'm not holding my breath on ever hearing the story and certainly not on here. Maybe if you buy someone enough beer next year at PIA.

But you asked what I see. Answer, not much, the captures are not great. But I don't see any thing contradicting the rumors that are floating around on here. But it's fun to speculate.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Edjglass920 0]

Thanks that was exactly what I was asking for, a knowledgeable opinion. Sorry about the quality of the grabs they were from my phone from the cbs vid.

[RiggerLee 61]

Oh, and by the way. That's exactly where lines usually break. the line comes down, goes around the link forming a loop, finger traps back in, and terminates inside the body of the line. Oddly enough that point where the finger trap ends inside the line, where it goes from thick to thin, is the week point. That is the normal failure point, 4 or 5 inches above the link just like you see.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[Edjglass920 0]

When I watch the video it just looks like those two pieces are exactly the same length and one peice of nylon tied in a knot and that is the loose end dangling behind. Anyone ever use something like that as a slider bumper. I will attach the video. Thanks for your replies.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/8352090-raw-video-complete-recording-of-skydive-mishap/

This is the long version so it actually shows the emts cutting the gear off

[Edjglass920 0]

Nevermind didn't see your reply above explaining why it looks like that.

[DBCOOPER 1]

After watching that video again and seeing the canopy held up in the breeze and the grass moving I can't believe a canopy opened at 13 could possibly land on the airport without any input...

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Doug_Davis 0]

Hellis

Cn anyone post a link to 'the old' thread with those pictures?
And, since I guess it's a long thread, what page are those pics at?

5th post in this thread had it.

This thread also alleges he didnt have an AAD. I dont know who or where that information came from, but since he was a student that would be a clear BSR violation.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4442054;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Pictures posted from that thread showing very frayed risers and broken suspension lines:
fuzzy risers https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EiPbCcDn08E/UMrv484lOJI/AAAAAAAAAe8/lfrDzwv5cO4/w727-h363-n-k/LEFT-RIGTH%2BOK.JPG
Broken suspension lines https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zKM0VflTKkI/UMrvEKIdVYI/AAAAAAAAAeY/PPT2tn2QY30/w593-h300-n-k/I%2BMISSED%2BTHE%2BSLIDER%2BPROBLEM.JPG
Another shot of lines https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dsEZ6i_FeQI/UMrtxgFc3gI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/6ohNQ3-oo9M/w521-h281-n-k/BROKEN%2BLINES.JPG

Those shots were posted and discussed by Stratostar in his post here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4442965#4442965

[Bluhdow 31]

Maybe we should send Gerardo over to your kayak operation since you think he's so legit.

I mean, with your proper instruction there's no way he'd screw up and fetch a lawyer on you, eh?

Apex BASE
#1816

[Hellis 0]

I think the risers are velcro risers, because I can't see any pockets for the toggles.
The velcro can make it look fuzzy and in contact with other parts make them look fuzzy.

[lyosha 46]

Doug_Davis

***My $0.02:

The rig was fine. The "FAA report" about it being "not serviceable" looked like a lawyer-bought hack job and shouldn't be taken as unbiased or even credible.

You dont know anything about the professional reputation of the Master Rigger involved in the inspection of that rig.
http://www.silverparachutes.com/about-us/
You might want to educate yourself.

That is all fantastic, and I had no doubt that the lawyer would purchase the opinion of someone with a lengthy resume. It's just the way personal injury cases work.

[Tink1717 2]

Quote

twatwaffle

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[grue 1]

Tink1717

Quote

twatwaffle

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!!

Back to the thread at hand:

I'll be the first to admit I never saw the framegrabs that are being posted until now, and some of that does look… well, yeah.

I still have strong feelings on the matter, however it's clear now that my knowledge level wasn't high enough in this case to go quite as berserk as I did. Ready, fire, aim!

cavete terrae.

[Trafficdiver 8]

Doug_Davis

***This explains it. Keep in mind he had a camera hidden in his glove.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4442054;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

According to that old thread it wasnt "hidden" as it seems on his old Youtube channel he posted multiple videos of himself and either an instructor or coach from the DZ jumping with him.
Seems some people were looking the other way or are blind as bats in doing gear checks.


He attached the camera to his hand, then put a glove over it with a hole cut out. How you can conclude that the camera was not hidden is beyond me.

[SoCalJumper 0]

Quote

He attached the camera to his hand, then put a glove over it with a hole cut out. How you can conclude that the camera was not hidden is beyond me.

I was looking at the images he posted and the file data say camera: iPhone4

Was it a GoPro camera for certain?

[Doug_Davis 0]

Trafficdiver

******This explains it. Keep in mind he had a camera hidden in his glove.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4442054;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

According to that old thread it wasnt "hidden" as it seems on his old Youtube channel he posted multiple videos of himself and either an instructor or coach from the DZ jumping with him.
Seems some people were looking the other way or are blind as bats in doing gear checks.


He attached the camera to his hand, then put a glove over it with a hole cut out. How you can conclude that the camera was not hidden is beyond me.

I didnt "conclude" that.

I said based on the fact he ALSO posted videos from jumps 13, 15, 18, etc etc as a student, some where the instructors are looking or talking directly into the camera, some supposedly where he takes the camera out on the plane, it would seem probable that the staff or others knew of the camera.
The videos have since been deleted. They were discussed in the old thread, the link to which has been posted numerous times now. Go read it.

[DougH 270]

By admission of the staff they realized he was using a camera to film jumps and he was told not to do so, repeatedly.

They should have given him the boot, but the failure to strip search him on every jump to search for cameras isn't acceptance of his rule breaking.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Di0 1]

But aren't you happy he did it regardless?

I mean, hadn't he taken the camera with him, he might have came out with a story where he had not fault at all.
"I was belly flying and doing simple turns when the container opened, the opening was so hard that it knocked myself out cold, one toggle came out of the pockets and I spiraled to the ground for 13k feet after passing out".

At least this way he documented his own stupidity and we know for a fact that:
a) yes, the container did open when it was not supposed to BUT:
b) the opening was pretty much a normal opening in a poor body position
c) he was conscious and under a good canopy.
d) he decided to unstow only one brake because he was too busy holding the camera IN THE PALM of his other hand and talking to it instead of flying his damn canopy. *
e) his passing out has pretty much nothing to do with the conditions of the gear or the chain of events, but it is something that happened ON TOP of everything else.

* I wonder how he would have handled a cutaway with such a camera setup... oh wait, my bad: we all know the RSL is 100% fail proof and will ALWAYS work, right?

All of that being said, the one thing he can't complain about is that he had a pretty damn good spot.

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[mirage62 0]

All I'm going to add was THAT WAS A DAMN GOOD SPOT given he open at 13K and he landed on the airport without doing anything!

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[normiss 620]

Editing!

[Di0 1]

AHAHAHA!
We had the same thought, as I added it to my post! Great minds...

I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

[Trafficdiver 8]

I read it. I saw the videos. And I saw the picture of the glove. And I posted the thread to help you out. That's more than you got, pal.