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SoCalJumper

Gerardo Flores, just filed the lawsuit in Monterey County Superior Court.

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The only thing that doesn't smell like horse shit is... never mind, everything smells just like horse shit.
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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1) head away from jump-run, other jumpers might be freefalling at that altitude (eees supe' hi, after all)
2) do a regular canopy check (i.e. describe your situation to the camera, freak out, unstow only one brake, take a nap)
3) enjoy the extra canopy time (think about cutting away your good canopy)
4) land. depending on the upper winds, you might be forced to land out, but with the jock we are talking about, this clearly wasn't the case. (crash uncontrollably spinning into the ground)

all of the above, none of the above.
I'm standing on the edge
With a vision in my head
My body screams release me
My dreams they must be fed... You're in flight.

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Di0

1) head away from jump-run, other jumpers might be freefalling at that altitude (eees supe' hi, after all)
2) do a regular canopy check (i.e. describe your situation to the camera, freak out, unstow only one brake, take a nap)
3) enjoy the extra canopy time (think about cutting away your good canopy)
4) land. depending on the upper winds, you might be forced to land out, but with the jock we are talking about, this clearly wasn't the case. (crash uncontrollably spinning into the ground)

all of the above, none of the above.



I would add to the "head away from jump run" statement to say, "Stay away from the jump run". Another load a few minutes later might not be what you are thinking about at 4,000 feet while you are trying to get to a landing pattern entry point.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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One of two things happened, both equally probable. First, it was a quasi-setup and he intended to sue before he made it to the ground; or he is really just that stupid and completely incompetent.

The fact he landed on the DZ after "being unconscious" for so long is very fishy, but remotely possible.

At any rate, what we can learn from this is student gear needs to be in tip top shape, not just good shape, or in a condition any of us would jump, it needs to be in the best shape possible, better than most sport rigs. When I was a student and before I got my own rig I jumped some worn out rigs with old leg strap PC velcro, main and reserve bottom tabs that wouldn't stay closed in freefall, and badly faded and frayed cordura. I've jumped a student rig with the AAD control panel tacked in place with thread because the clear window had split open, etc etc etc. All airworthy and I would happily jump any of those rigs again. But they look sketch to an untrained eye, and the judge and jury are the untrained eyes that matter.

Students and inexperienced jumpers are the most likely to sue because they understand so little and have to put so much faith in other people telling them what to do, so people providing them gear need to make sure there is nothing about it that could be called into question, even if it is entirely cosmetic.

Also, "twatwaffle" is the funniest insult I've heard in a while, thanks for that whoever posted it :D

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normiss

This is why they use expert witnesses in court, to explain facts to the untrained eyes.
Airworthy IS airworthy, period.



I once sat in on a liability trial (a friend was an expert witness). I have NO faith that the jury used anything other than emotion, based on their facial expressions and body language.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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normiss

This is why they use expert witnesses in court, to explain facts to the untrained eyes.
Airworthy IS airworthy, period.



Haha, you clearly have no experience (and way too much faith) in the American judicial system/ American public :S

To be clear, what you said is the right idea, but the execution is usually a joke, partly because no one defines "expert" it is up to each side to convince the court their person is indeed an "expert" they can be paid, and jurys are usually pretty stupid.

Also thanks for the update LowDuck. ;)

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Anachronist is correct.

Schools should retire any old student gear that is "free fly unfriendly" for multiple reasons. It has been 15 years since "free fly friendly" gear became the norm for sport jumpers. Students deserve equal quality gear. If a DZ cannot afford to replace student gear every 15 years, they need a new business model.

Number one students freefall at all angles with no conscious effort.
Secondly, freefall students routinely ignore advice against freeykng with student gear.
Thirdly, DZOs are forced to decide who they want to pay. They are going to have to spend the money in the long run. They only get to decide who they are going to pay: riggers or lawyers. Pay your rigger now or pay a lawyer later. Hint: riggers' wages are 1/10 lawyers' wages.
The safest thing is that the wounded will be lucky see 1percent of the money wasted on a lawsuit.

November is the end of the skydiving season at most DZs. Riggers will cheerfully hide behind their sewing machines during the cold months, fixing all those annoying popped stitches, etc.

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radical_flyer

***
Secondly, freefall students routinely ignore advice against freeykng with student gear.


What's "freeykng"? A typo I presume, did you mean freeflying?

............................................

I meant to type FREEFLYING but the acursed spell-check tried to help.

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I didn't imagine that freefall students attempting or performing freeflying positions was a thing that would actually happen, how do you know that it does? I've only heard a very brief passing mention on radio skydive UK of a presumably very experienced tunnel flyer doing it on their consols. What would the AFFIs say to the student if they tried it on the AFF levels or coached jumps (not sure how it works in CSPA). In both cases, whether the student fails or has the skills. I've been considering it but I have no idea how hard FF positions really are. In BPA AFF you don't even do barrel rolls or floater exits.

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AFF students have to perform a barrel roll , but that is not SUPPOSED to be for a prolonged exposure of the back side of the rig to the relative wind, but we all know not every one(students) executes a maneuver with the best of precision and can end up stuck on their back. But for students to purposely freefly in student gear should not be done. If he was doing a barrel roll it was not on a STUDENT rig but a sport rig and apparently was told not to do it. He did not complete the roll and got stuck on his back IMO, and even went slightly head down. Some one in one of the reports posted in this thread had mentioned the velcro was worn but was then posted it was old leg mount that had been converted to a throw out and the old velcro covered by the mate(hook exposed covered by latch or vice versa) so not a player. I brought the point about him being stuck on his back and lil head down cause in the video this is when you see the pilot chute go by him meaning his speed at deployment was pretty fast, fast enough to break lines, and again no velcro in that process.

All that aside we all know a million and one things can go wrong but to not do a control check, but realize something is not right, and not execute proper ep's is ultimately on him.

In watching the landing portion of the video look at the back ground in relation to the canopy travel, it does not appear to be turning.

Man up and take responsibility for your actions or lack there of.He had repeatedly shown he was not going to follow the rules or guidelines or advise, and it was just a matter of time. Glad no one else was hurt.

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I know that students and junior jumpers and renters freefly by accident from very early in their skydiving careers ... many attempt backloops and barrel rolls and sit flying on their first jumps.
How do I know this? ... I have been a jumpmaster since 1982.

Even when you tell renters not to sit-fly with an older rig, they sit-fly anyways. Then act surprised when the pilot chute sneaks out prematurely!
Hah!
Hah!
Then they get really choked when the rigger charges them to sew the container back together!
No sympathy!

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