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carrier louis paul

one more Icon malfunction

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On 11/18/2021 at 1:03 PM, billvon said:

Was that the fault of the Racer or the rigger?

I would posit it doesn't matter. I prefer my gear to have one less failure scenario to one more.

I'm really not interested in the pissing contest between jump shack and riggers. There shouldn't be one in the first place, and its existence is already telling.

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1 hour ago, lyosha said:

I would posit it doesn't matter. I prefer my gear to have one less failure scenario to one more.

The problem is that every single rig feature out there adds a failure scenario.

AAD's?  Premature reserve deployment.
RSL's? Out of sequence deployment, or entanglement hazard.
Two sided RSL's?  Main-reserve strangulation.
Skyhooks?  Non-release of the skyhook during a main total.
Two pin reserves?  Reserve deployment failure.
Single pin reserves? Premature reserve deployment.
Reserves?  Main-reserve entanglement.
Three ring release?  Cutaway cable trapping due to line twists, or failure of the white loop on opening.

Every gear decision we make is a tradeoff between failure scenarios and odds of that failure.  Most of us are OK with the added failure scenarios that a reserve, or an RSL, or an AAD, or a three ring release brings, because we are used to them.  So right there you have willingly added four (and often more) failure scenarios to your gear.

And I've heard those pissing contests involving Racers, Reflexes, Javelins, Icons, Vectors, Swifts and Flexons.  (There's probably more; I just haven't heard them myself.)  If you avoid any gear that involves a pissing contest, you'd have a pretty limited selection of gear to choose from.

 

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4 hours ago, billvon said:

The problem is that every single rig feature out there adds a failure scenario.

AAD's?  Premature reserve deployment.
RSL's? Out of sequence deployment, or entanglement hazard.
Two sided RSL's?  Main-reserve strangulation.
Skyhooks?  Non-release of the skyhook during a main total.
Two pin reserves?  Reserve deployment failure.
Single pin reserves? Premature reserve deployment.
Reserves?  Main-reserve entanglement.
Three ring release?  Cutaway cable trapping due to line twists, or failure of the white loop on opening.

Every gear decision we make is a tradeoff between failure scenarios and odds of that failure.  Most of us are OK with the added failure scenarios that a reserve, or an RSL, or an AAD, or a three ring release brings, because we are used to them.  So right there you have willingly added four (and often more) failure scenarios to your gear.

And I've heard those pissing contests involving Racers, Reflexes, Javelins, Icons, Vectors, Swifts and Flexons.  (There's probably more; I just haven't heard them myself.)  If you avoid any gear that involves a pissing contest, you'd have a pretty limited selection of gear to choose from.

 

believe it or not, same loft but different rig , same result...

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10 hours ago, billvon said:

...Every gear decision we make is a tradeoff between failure scenarios and odds of that failure.  Most of us are OK with the added failure scenarios that a reserve, or an RSL, or an AAD, or a three ring release brings, because we are used to them.  So right there you have willingly added four (and often more) failure scenarios to your gear.

Most of us are ok with the 'added failure scenarios' because the 'risk/reward' of having an RSL, AAD or Three Ring is heavily in favor of having them.

For example, lots of people don't want an RSL for a variety of reasons.

However, the number of people that die from those reasons is far, far lower than the number of people who die after cutting away (at a reasonable altitude) and failing to pull the reserve in time.

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On 11/21/2021 at 11:17 PM, billvon said:

Every gear decision we make is a tradeoff between failure scenarios and odds of that failure. 

That's half of it. But you completely neglect the benefit of the innovation over the alternative.

For example, yes, RSLs have an additional failure mode, some might even say a couple, but those are in most applications drowned out by the positive impact of getting a reserve above your head earlier in the average case.

What is so innovative about icon's reserve deployment system that it warrants the risk? I can't think of anything that significantly differentiates them from the other containers out there in this regard. Same goes for racers two sided rsl. Anyone worried about riser breakage is better served by a Collins lanyard. Same goes for rigging innovations magnet dbag.

I suppose I could have been more specific. Given equal efficacy, I'd prefer less failure scenarios and less probability of failure over more failure scenarios.

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On 11/17/2021 at 10:19 PM, carrier louis paul said:

Have a video of my Javelin rig at a rigger shop for the annual repack, reserve being activated, same horrible result as in your video. The bridle was not positioned optimally since too much of the bridle was placed under flaps by the previous packer. I then immediately bought an Icon… but since then I am back to the Jav system as I bought an Aurora rig. I make sure to visually check that the bridle is placed correctly when it comes from repack ;)

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3 hours ago, skyderrill66 said:

You obviously have a bone to pick with aerodyne

I have no dog in this fight at all. If the bone is real however, I say pick all the meat off it and fully expose the bone.

It seems to me that this issue could be tested by any competent rigger with access to similar harness-container / parachute combinations. 

I don’t think this website caries the weight it once did in informing people by skilled, knowledgable, and esteemed peers. I do think, however, that Aerodyne should answer this challenge for the purposes of both finding the issue (whatever it is) in the complainant’s video and, assuming the bone is clean, protecting their reputation. 

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3 minutes ago, dgw said:

I have no dog in this fight at all. If the bone is real however, I say pick all the meat off it and fully expose the bone.

It seems to me that this issue could be tested by any competent rigger with access to similar harness-container / parachute combinations. 

I don’t think this website caries the weight it once did in informing people by skilled, knowledgable, and esteemed peers. I do think, however, that Aerodyne should answer this challenge for the purposes of both finding the issue (whatever it is) in the complainant’s video and, assuming the bone is clean, protecting their reputation. 

This was not directed at you it is directed at  carrier louis paul 

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On 11/25/2021 at 10:32 PM, skyderrill66 said:

This was not directed at you it is directed at  carrier louis paul 

the name of the experienced person who experimented a delay on her Icon after cutaway is Christine Malnis French national RW team member, I would also hear from Aerodyne their point of view at least about the cutter location change

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5 hours ago, carrier louis paul said:

the name of the experienced person who experimented a delay on her Icon after cutaway is Christine Malnis French national RW team member, I would also hear from Aerodyne their point of view at least about the cutter location change

I have this crazy idea that perhaps you could contact Aerodyne directly?

Aerodyne Research, LLC
1725 Lexington Avenue
Deland, FL 32724

P: (386) 279-7990
[email protected]

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7 hours ago, carrier louis paul said:

the name of the experienced person who experimented a delay on her Icon after cutaway is Christine Malnis French national RW team member, I would also hear from Aerodyne their point of view at least about the cutter location change

Why are you refusing to answer what the metal object falling out of the container is. Like i said you obviously have a bone to pick with Aerodyne.

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