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Ronhend

DC3 Stall

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I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is on this little incident but not really a cool thing to post. I thought all the tapes had been erased. The FAA isn't exactly cool about things like that. That door being wide open is totally illegal. I don't care what the military did in WWII. That configuration is not approved for good reason. It's too big a hole to fly if you lose the starboard engine.

Lee
Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

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I get sick of all the "statute of limitations " comments about anything and everything...has anyone ever heard of anything coming back to bite someone from 20 yrs or more ago ? honest to fuck...there are so many stories that i never get to hear cuz someone always pulls out the statute card at the bonfire...[:/]
smile, be nice, enjoy life
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normiss

It wasn't.
:P



Kinda looks like the gear was down? A flash of what looks like a wheel can be seen at 18 seconds. And seen during the recovery I think.

I hear they sometimes put the gear down on, what was it, Lodestars, but hadn't heard about that for DC-3's. Not sure how much of a beneficial forward effect it would have on the C of G, especially on the larger DC-3.

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I'm not sure I would classify that as a real spin.
It looks more like a Vmc roll to me:
1. Port engine throttled back.
2. Aft CG.
3. Airspeed falls below Vmc.
4. Starboard engine pulls it's wing over the top.

I was in a KingAir that did a Vmc roll on jumprun, and it did just that.
In both cases, once the nose was pointed at the ground, the spin ended.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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From what I could see in the video the aircraft was in a spiral dive after the spin recovery, which allows the aircraft to rapidly gain airspeed. The pilot had full aileron deflection to stop the spiral. (Conversely, rudder input would be used to stop a spin rotation). Lowering the gear in a DC3 or Beech 18 will move the CG forward a bit, but also increases drag to slow down the rapid acceleration while recovering from the dive.

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Not directed at your post. I would think a pilot would be pretty busy trying to recover the aircraft, and PROBABLY not have time in the middle of a roll to reach over and drop the gear until after he had the roll stopped and had the nose pointed down and was gaining air speed. But you never know there are some badass pilots out there.

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airdvr

I would think dropping the gear would add to the problem. Don't remember on my 3 jumps whether the gear was down but it was for all of my Beech 18 jumps.



There may be some center of gravity benefit for putting the gear down, but I would also think that extra drag located low like that would cause a bit of a rotational moment lifting the tail.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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"Statute of limitations"?
Hah!
That sounds like "lawyer speak!"

Wise people learn from the mistakes of others ... even if those mistakes occurred 40 years ago.

As for the gear being down .. definitely in this video of a DC-3, but not any of the times I jumped DC-3 or C-47. Not even the Canadian Air Force lowered the gear when I jumped a CAF C-47 back in 1981.

OTOH it was standard practice for Lodestars to lower the gear before jump run. Lowered gear helped shift the center of gravity farther forward. Forward C of G was important on Lodestars because the door was too far aft of the C of G. That was also back during the late-1970s when 10-way speed stars were the hottest competition event and they were just starting learning how to launch chunks. Lodestars retired in disgrace after too many stall-spin accidents. My old buddy Tom Classen (sp?) had a scary story about the Lodestar that spun in near Arlington, Washington back during the early 1980s!
Scary!

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jumpwally

I get sick of all the "statute of limitations " comments about anything and everything...has anyone ever heard of anything coming back to bite someone from 20 yrs or more ago ? honest to fuck...there are so many stories that i never get to hear cuz someone always pulls out the statute card at the bonfire...[:/]




And the rest of us are pretty sick of the societal predication to post for the world to see every bit of video footage.....
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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That first youtube video was just above another video of a study that NACA (predecessor to NASA) did on DC-3 stalls back in 1938. Interesting how tuft tests showed the DC-3 wing stalling first at the tip, then the aileron stalls and much later the wing root stalls.

Since World War 2 most airplanes have designed to stall in the opposite order: wing root first and aileron last, so that you retain some roll control part-way into the stall.

I wonder if the factory changed DC-3 stall characteristics during WW2?

Did any of the post-war STCs change stall characteristics?

Has anyone published a pilot report about DC-3 handling near the stall?

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riggerrob

That first youtube video was just above another video of a study that NACA (predecessor to NASA) did on DC-3 stalls back in 1938. Interesting how tuft tests showed the DC-3 wing stalling first at the tip, then the aileron stalls and much later the wing root stalls.

Since World War 2 most airplanes have designed to stall in the opposite order: wing root first and aileron last, so that you retain some roll control part-way into the stall.

I wonder if the factory changed DC-3 stall characteristics during WW2?

Did any of the post-war STCs change stall characteristics?

Has anyone published a pilot report about DC-3 handling near the stall?



A quick search found THIS. Interesting discussion. Apparently, the DC-3 has a swept wing (although it isn't really obvious). Which leads to "interesting" stall behavior.

Some of the first hand experiences related in the link are...
Interesting.

The catastrophic engine failure at the end must have been exciting too.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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