It's really no wonder why DZ.com has become more stagnant over time.

[Cocowheats 10]

I found this place awhile back as a newer skydiver looking for an open arms community to chat, laugh, assist others, and frankly learn from. Unfortunately, DZ.com is a bit slow moving and after hanging around for awhile, I can see why.

While points have been brought up that forums are not all the rage anymore with the advent of the likes of Facebook groups, Reddit, and the likes; other forums do continue to thrive despite other newer social outlets.

So let's dive into some things I've noticed...

1. The community here seems less than helpful more times than not.

I once made a thread on here asking about butt padding since I was coming back from an injury and planned on sliding in some landings until I worked back some more confidence and mobility. This plan was inconjunction with Drs, instructors, and PTs along with an upsized canopy. Responses ranged from "butt hurt", to gag items, to learn to not suck because sliding in is unacceptable. Very little help and plenty of cockyness in that thread.

Turns out, lots of people slide in every landing. I made a friend with someone who is 30% paralyzed in his legs. He can walk with braces but can't stand up a landing, so he commonly slides in. Yes, he's on a tuna boat canopy, but that doesn't change things enough to stand them up. Butt padding is a real thing for him cause he either PLFs or slides in based on winds and what not.

Heck, even one of the big skydiving shops sells tailbone/hip padded shorts. RockSkyMarket.com sells padded shorts. I found those on my own...

2. It's a "Good Ol' Boys/Girls" Forum.

Call Skydekker "Skydick" when he is being, well, a dick, and you get the wag of the finger by a moderator for a personal attack but if someone else with thousands of posts comes along and attacks you, the mods may just look the other way.

Offer an alternative view that majority of DZ.com seemingly disagrees with or can't coexist with, and it's now ok to make negative assumptions and label the user as scum. Whatever happened to disagreeing respectfully or at least understanding an alternative view?

3. It's very Elitist here.

Which is no wonder why most posts are people that have been here for a looonng time. Look at point #1; if that was an AFF student posting it, I couldn't imagine why they'd have any desire to stick around here.

 

 

Luckily, as I have traveled the lands visiting other DZs, the sentiments that I find on DZ.com does not echo out into real world skydiving communities. Plenty of open views being accepted and plenty of community driven to help others rather than belittle them. Of course I have seen plenty of DZ.com sentiments in the real world as well, but at least they've been few and far between thus far.

So, the next time you are thinking about DZ.com, perhaps think about how it could be a better place by simply being a more welcoming and helpful community. That alone could actually breathe some new life to this stagnant forum.

 

In before the comments telling me: to leave, that I'm the problem, or just flat out flaming me.

Have a safe weekend folks.

[billvon 2,379]

20 minutes ago, Cocowheats said:

Luckily, as I have traveled the lands visiting other DZs, the sentiments that I find on DZ.com does not echo out into real world skydiving communities. Plenty of open views being accepted and plenty of community driven to help others rather than belittle them.

Have it as your home DZ for a few years.  If you treat your DZ like you treat people here, within a few years you'll be saying "I hate all the politics" "too many cliques" "sick of all the drama" - and you'll find a new one. I know a lot of skydivers like that.  But all their bad experiences with DZ's have one thing in common - and it's not the DZ's.

You get out of any community what you put into it.  And what you put into this place are posts like:

"Obvious troll is obvious. Don't you have a bridge to guard? Or is dz.com your bridge?"
"you're free to have an opinion of who to feel sorry for...or whatever. It really is a hard concept to grasp, I get it."
"Hey skydick, you're scared of freedom. Got it."
"I'm sorry most of you fear freedom"

This place is like any other community.  You get back what you put into it.

[olofscience 420]

This guy's definition of freedom seems to be freedom from consequences of whatever crap they say or do, then when they get less than a welcoming reaction, we get this drama. Jeez.

[Cocowheats 10]

Well, we've kicked it off with villianizing the OP, and by a mod nonetheless. No surprises I guess.

Not true. I have poured my heart and soul into communities only to have them trampled and run to the ground by it's members. I have been on BoDs for non-profits that were just hell bent on doing the opposite of their mission statement.

So no, you don't always get back what you put in. In a perfect world, maybe. Wish I was wrong...

As to the quotes you have of me, well way to cherry pick them with no context of what lead to them. I have also offered positive advice to others, but you don't dare post quotes from those...

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Cocowheats
Spelling.

[Cocowheats 10]

8 minutes ago, olofscience said:

This guy's definition of freedom seems to be freedom from consequences of whatever crap they say or do, then when they get less than a welcoming reaction, we get this drama. Jeez.

It's not like there is a whole lot going on DZ.com outside of that anyways.

This isn't drama. This is wishful enlightenment posted in the free to talk section of the forum. I guess I could just log off and be one less dz.com user.

Again, it's no wonder people don't come here much often...

Edited November 6, 2021 by Cocowheats

[olofscience 420]

1 minute ago, Cocowheats said:

This isn't drama.

Suuure. /s

[Cocowheats 10]

Whatever, flame suit on.

I truly meant my have have a great weekend comment. If this is it, cool. I'm out for a bit.

Just had this thought brewing for a bit and had a minute to get it out.

Blue skies folks. Hope it ain't cold.

#MakeDZ.comGreatAgain?

Edited November 6, 2021 by Cocowheats

[olofscience 420]

6 minutes ago, Cocowheats said:

#MakeDZ.comGreatAgain?

Your departure would greatly help with that. Go on, you've said goodbye already...

[Cocowheats 10]

1 minute ago, olofscience said:

Your departure would greatly help with that. Go on, you've said goodbye already...

You complain about drama, then you call this thread drama, so you then proceed to further incorporate yourself into what you perceive as drama.

But but but, I'm the problem ?

Surely if you weren't about what you perceive as drama, you wouldn't be in here yourself.

You've only strengthened the sentiment in my OP. Thank you and have a better weekend.

[olofscience 420]

4 minutes ago, Cocowheats said:

You complain about drama, then you call this thread drama, so you then proceed to further incorporate yourself into what you perceive as drama.

You really don't get it...

[wmw999 2,114]

Folks, take it to PM's.

Cocowheats, before this thread, you'd made about 60 posts in dz.com. I don't know how long you spent reading before starting to post, but that can make a difference. If you come in going against what's generally seen as statistically valid (e.g. science, landings), then you can expect pushback, sometimes vigorous pushback.

Most of the longtimers here (yeah, it's a forum, so there are more longtimers than short timers) have seen the people who just don't think that the rules of landing, or canopy selection, or anything else, really apply to them. Sometimes people really are that good, but, ya know -- if we took everyone's word for it, and they got hurt, well, that would hurt not just the over-eager poster, it would also damage the DZ, and the other people who listen and don't post.

Olofscience, the back-and-forth doesn't help anyone. Please don't engage in that.

Wendy P.

[olofscience 420]

2 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Olofscience, the back-and-forth doesn't help anyone. Please don't engage in that.

Sorry, done now. Just found it extremely ironic that someone with his post history is now asking for, and I quote:

1 hour ago, Cocowheats said:

Whatever happened to disagreeing respectfully or at least understanding an alternative view?

 

[billvon 2,379]

4 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

Well, we've kicked it off with villianizing the OP, and by a mod nonetheless.

?? You get out of any community what you put into it.  If you believe that that means that you are a villain . . . well, OK.  But that's an odd take on it.

Quote

I have poured my heart and soul into communities only to have them trampled and run to the ground by it's members. I have been on BoDs for non-profits that were just hell bent on doing the opposite of their mission statement.

No doubt.  I have seen more than a few people do that at DZ's then later make a grand trampling exit over "politics" and "cliques" and "they don't appreciate what I do for .  . . ."  And yet others contribute at the same DZ's and get back even more than what they put in.  From my experience, people can choose which group they belong to.  That's true here as well.

Quote

I have also offered positive advice to others, but you don't dare post quotes from those...

That's great!  If you make that your focus, you will get a much more positive reaction from people.

[gowlerk 1,901]

6 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

That alone could actually breathe some new life to this stagnant forum.

This whole site used to be more active and better in many ways. The shift to FB and other forms of social media easily accessed on small devices has been the main driver of its decline from its peak. I still find it very worthwhile, even though I have not found many of your posts to be helpful. You get what you pay for I guess.

[David Wang 48]

 

6 hours ago, Cocowheats said:

if that was an AFF student posting it, I couldn't imagine why they'd have any desire to stick around here.

As a new jumper I think I actually got a lot of help from people on dz.com... maybe because I posted a lot of questions here in the past.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

20 hours ago, David Wang said:

 

As a new jumper I think I actually got a lot of help from people on dz.com... maybe because I posted a lot of questions here in the past.

You also came across as someone who was willing to listen and learn.

Some folks come on here, thinking they know everything, insulting those who disagree, generally acting like a jerk.

For some reason, those types get a rather different reception.

[Baksteen 84]

On 11/6/2021 at 6:57 PM, Cocowheats said:

Not true. I have poured my heart and soul into communities only to have them trampled and run to the ground by it's members. I have been on BoDs for non-profits that were just hell bent on doing the opposite of their mission statement.

So no, you don't always get back what you put in. In a perfect world, maybe. Wish I was wrong...

 

As a long-term volunteer for several different clubs It's my experience that you invest a lot more time and effort than you ever get "paid" in recognition.

If and when you reach a point where it seems not worth it anymore, it's time to take a step back and/or move on.

[DougH 270]

On 11/6/2021 at 1:00 PM, Cocowheats said:

I once made a thread on here asking about butt padding since I was coming back from an injury and planned on sliding in some landings until I worked back some more confidence and mobility. This plan was inconjunction with Drs, instructors, and PTs along with an upsized canopy. Responses ranged from "butt hurt", to gag items, to learn to not suck because sliding in is unacceptable. Very little help and plenty of cockyness in that thread.

I am assuming that this post wasn't under this user name. Why don't you provide a link if you are going to reference it as exhibit A for why we are collectively unhelpful.

I will go out on a limb here and make the statement that you probably received some very constructive feedback, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear. You were a less experience jumper that already had a plan figured out, and you didn't like that it didn't receive the affirmation that you expected.

It was probably pointed out that tandem style slide landings, a butt slide, carries a much greater risk of spinal injury versus a landing that incorporates your legs, especially for a newer jumper who needed to work up some "confidence" in their landings.

 

[BIGUN 1,042]

23 hours ago, DougH said:

It was probably pointed out that tandem style slide landings, a butt slide, carries a much greater risk of spinal injury versus a landing that incorporates your legs, especially for a newer jumper who needed to work up some "confidence" in their landings.

I'm really confused here. At what point did it become better to point the bottom of your spine to the planet than using your hydraulic shock absorbers to land?

[wmw999 2,114]

To be fair, in his case, his legs are seriously compromised if I remember the thread, and landing on them really isn't a good idea.

Sometimes, if one isn't that experienced, that's an indication that skydiving isn't the best choice. Kind of like how when a woman gets pregnant, the doctor will usually tell her to take it down a couple of notches -- if you're only at the second notch, that kind of means "not a good idea."

Wendy P.

[nwt 131]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:30 PM, DougH said:

It was probably pointed out that tandem style slide landings, a butt slide, carries a much greater risk of spinal injury

 

On 11/9/2021 at 1:15 PM, BIGUN said:

At what point did it become better to point the bottom of your spine to the planet

This is tangential, but there are multiple ways to slide, and it's wrong to conflate them all by jumping straight from "slide" to "tandem style slide on your butt".

Without suggesting that this would be right or wrong for OP, sliding on your hip (part of your femur, the strongest bone in your body) is very different.

[BIGUN 1,042]

32 minutes ago, nwt said:

Without suggesting that this would be right or wrong for OP, sliding on your hip (part of your femur, the strongest bone in your body) is very different.

Being really good at PLF's is best. 

[Cocowheats 10]

On 11/8/2021 at 2:30 PM, DougH said:

I am assuming that this post wasn't under this user name. Why don't you provide a link if you are going to reference it as exhibit A for why we are collectively unhelpful.

I will go out on a limb here and make the statement that you probably received some very constructive feedback, but it wasn't what you wanted to hear. You were a less experience jumper that already had a plan figured out, and you didn't like that it didn't receive the affirmation that you expected.

It was probably pointed out that tandem style slide landings, a butt slide, carries a much greater risk of spinal injury versus a landing that incorporates your legs, especially for a newer jumper who needed to work up some "confidence" in their landings.

 

Not sure if that's a dig at me suggesting I have multiple accounts, but I don't. I'm not the whoever person you folks think I am on some new account. Any of the mods should be able to track my IP and see that.

Here's the thread.

The best constructive feedback I received was to upsize, which was already part of the game plan. I did not jump until my surgeon said I was physically healed to do any and all physical activities I desire, including skydiving. He has a full understanding of what I did and my desire to fly again and cleared me when he saw fit to.

[Cocowheats 10]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:40 PM, wmw999 said:

To be fair, in his case, his legs are seriously compromised if I remember the thread, and landing on them really isn't a good idea.

Sometimes, if one isn't that experienced, that's an indication that skydiving isn't the best choice. Kind of like how when a woman gets pregnant, the doctor will usually tell her to take it down a couple of notches -- if you're only at the second notch, that kind of means "not a good idea."

Wendy P.

Close. Singular ankle.

You gain experience by doing. Sometimes you learn the most from utter failure. For me, returning to the sky was part of not being defeated. Not returning would have been defeat.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Cocowheats

[Cocowheats 10]

On 11/11/2021 at 4:48 PM, nwt said:

 

This is tangential, but there are multiple ways to slide, and it's wrong to conflate them all by jumping straight from "slide" to "tandem style slide on your butt".

Without suggesting that this would be right or wrong for OP, sliding on your hip (part of your femur, the strongest bone in your body) is very different.

Well put.

 

The thought was that anything less than a tiptoe soft landing would be feet touch down to absorb and then go to butt or PLF, depending on the situation(example: elevator rides=definite PLF, fast forward momentum from low wind=likely slide). I wore a brace, as suggested by my surgeon, because twisting the ankle was one of the big concerns since I had relearned to walk/run.

While working up to getting my confidence back, I flew a larger canopy and really watched the winds. Would only go up on gentle winds and would watch and talk to the other jumpers for a few loads before going up.

Slid in probably a solid 20-30 jumps after getting back. Got some canopy coaching as well with my usual canopy.

After everything was said and done, I stood up over 150 consecutive landings this past season and have zero desire to downsize, despite that.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Cocowheats