rickjump1 0 #1 July 11, 2003 Has anyone pro packed a Challenger ? I know you should follow the recommended method, but has anyone had any luck pro packing it? First time post . thanks. [email protected][email]Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 July 11, 2003 Beer.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #3 July 11, 2003 Not a good idea. Follow the mfr's instructions. I know the Wings of Blue (USAF Academy) use to use them and I never saw one get pro-packed. Tim Maggot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #4 July 12, 2003 RW Challenger 240....... It was made for me by New England Parachute Company in like 1991... Never had a mal... with that canopy.. Flat packed it on one chord for 600 jumps then switched around and flat packed it on the other chord for 500 more.... re lined once.... retired it a couple of years ago,,, last jump on it was a night 4 way..... " gee this thing must have packing tabs on it for SOME reason..'.!!! .. then a year ago or so,, I saw another RW challenger 240 ( a slightly "speedier' version of the huge Challenger and Classic....) offered for sale in the classified at SKYDIVING.... the demand for it was low and so I offered the guy A hundred and fifty bucks,,, and he shipped it to me... I use it in my 2nd rig, and for occasional back to backs,,, or the once in a while accuracy shot...... I'm glad I have it....But man 240 square feet!!!! my first apartment was less than 240 SQ. FEET!!!!!! I never pro pack it............ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #5 July 12, 2003 OK, I'll continue to flat pack it. Thanks for the help.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
demonstalker1 0 #6 April 5, 2016 I have a Challenger 259... Never jumped it because it says on the data tag recommended for jumpers 140 to 170 and an max exit weight of 207 lbs... Can anyone tell me if this is correct I would be 25 lbs over max weight.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #7 April 8, 2016 Accuracy canopies are normally loaded about 0.7 pounds per square foot. IOW you need more square feet overhead than pounds hanging underneath. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #8 April 8, 2016 jimmytavino I never pro pack it............ Why is that, Jimmy? BTW, I remember when we all jumped F-111 7 cells and everyone would shoot accuracy on almost every jump. We got pretty good at landing where we wanted to. Much easier than with today's high performance, flat gliding canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #9 April 8, 2016 I learned accuracy and got my pro rating on an RW Challenger. I always pro packed it and never had any issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #10 April 8, 2016 never pro packed it...John, because I simply never Learned How..... It was a Big canopy and lots of material to work with... Never had a Mal. with 2 different RW Challenger 240s that I had.... maybe 1250 jumps total on them.... Still flat pack...... ( the last 15 years or so, using a PD Spectre ... Zero mals.... on them too.......only I now I call it "pre-pro " packing...... I usually carry a packing mat AND a drag mat, and and try Not to take up space,,, where others are pro-packing.... On a few occasions when others packed for me,,, never a Mal... but a few twisters....all which could be resolved.... Six of one....half a dozen of the other....I suppose ANY correctly configured ram air Can be Pro Packed..... jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #11 April 9, 2016 I, too, had 14-1500 jumps in a row, flat packing F-111 7 cell canopies, with zero malfunctions. Those canopies were similar to reserves and base canopies, so their reliability is not surprising. Now line twists can be enough to send you to your cutaway handle, something unheard of 30 years ago. Progress always has a price. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #12 April 9, 2016 JohnMitchell I, too, had 14-1500 jumps in a row, flat packing F-111 7 cell canopies, with zero malfunctions. Those canopies were similar to reserves and base canopies, so their reliability is not surprising. Search for username "billbooth" and words "flat packing", and you will find: billbooth The malfunction rates on all of our tandem canopies are MUCH lower if they are flat packed. We've been telling people this fact for years, so I'm quite frankly amazed that anyone still pro-packs large canopies. billbooth The lowest tandem malfunction rate I've heard of, for an entire DZ, is one mal in 7,500 jumps at Las Vegas. They, of course, flat pack. Dz's that flat pack have consistently lower tandem malfunction rates than those who PROpack. I'm sure the reason is that line-overs are far easier to pack when you PROpack. When some DZ's have a tandem mal every few hundred jumps, and others every few thousand jumps (on identical equipment) the only reason has to be packing. billbooth Most people who FLAT PACK my tandem canopies go 1,000's of jumps between partial malfunctions. The record is 7,500 between malfunctions at Skydive Las Vegas. Skydive Chicago, and certain military groups, reported similar results. Most DZ's who PRO PACK their tandems have 'functions every few hundred jumps. This differential between malfunction rates, Pro pack vs. flat pack, only seems to occur when packing large canopies. billbooth Some DZ's go 1,000's of tandem jumps without any malfunctions...other DZ's have malfunctons every few hundred jumps..on identical equipment. Everybody has the same body position at drogue release, so the only possible variable is packing. Hint: DZ's who flat pack have the lowest malfunction rates by far. "There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #13 April 9, 2016 Damn interesting! I haven't worked anywhere where the rate approached 1 in 3-400. That's a lot of chops. My last several tandem chops were broken lines and tension knots, nothing I'd blame on pro packing. But certainly food for thought. Hey, TIs, like your openings? Thank your packers. I even hear they like tips. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzswoop717 5 #14 April 9, 2016 Maitenance plays a big part in malfuntion rate of tandem rigs. also. Just a worn out set of lines, putting the canopy out of trim, can cause a malfunction. You could look at it this way, a fun jumper making 150 jumps a year will need a new line set every 3 to four years depending on type of lines and wing loading. A tandem rig can need new lines every few month at a busy DZ. How often do you see DZ's changing line sets at the recomended times. A commercially operated cessna 182 gets a 100 hour inspection and a privately flown 182 only needs an annual inspection every 12 months no mater how many hours it flew during that year. Should tandem gear be held to a higher standard than personal gear because it is being used comercially? Sorry for the thread drift. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #15 April 9, 2016 One DZ I've worked at has the maintenance log for all the rigs up on a big board for everyone to see, such as new date, reline date, reserve repacks, etc. Each jump on each canopy is logged and the line sets are replaced in a timely fashion. I like it that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzswoop717 5 #16 April 10, 2016 Every DZ should do that. I'll bet there mal rate is lower than average if they follow manufacturers recomendations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #17 April 14, 2016 +1,,,never understood why you would not flat pack anything !! it just makes sense,,,, smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #18 April 14, 2016 ........ Should tandem gear be held to a higher standard than personal gear because it is being used comercially? Sorry for the thread drift. ......................................................... Yes. Most of the tandem manufacturers tell us to inspect the main and exterior of H/C every 25 jumps. Timely maintenance reduces malfunctions. When I maintained a fleet of Strong Dual Hawk tandems the malfunction rate approached 1 in 1200 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
