Trump ends the war in Afghanistan

[brenthutch 383]

According to the Biden administration Trump stuck them with the agreement with the Taliban to pull out US troops this year. (Remember Biden’s “hands being tied” and “hospital pass”?) All Biden did was to execute (poorly) a plan that Trump had already put into place.  I’m not a fan of Trump, but we have to give credit where credit is due.

[jakee 1,254]

Why did you need to start a new thread just to repeat back what several people have been telling you for weeks now?

[brenthutch 383]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

Why did you need to start a new thread just to repeat back what several people have been telling you for weeks now?

That Trump ended the war in Afghanistan?  Although true, I hadn’t seen it framed that way on SC.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

The perfect news feed

[billvon 2,380]

4 hours ago, jakee said:

Why did you need to start a new thread just to repeat back what several people have been telling you for weeks now?

Because now he's decided it's his idea.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

29 minutes ago, billvon said:

Because now he's decided it's his idea.

Hi Bill,

As crazy as it seems; you are right.

Jerry Baumchen

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

That Trump ended the war in Afghanistan?  Although true, I hadn’t seen it framed that way on SC.

In that exact order of words? Sure, but I've never seen you say Trump finished the war in Afghanistan either. Why aren't you giving Trump his due?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

In that exact order of words? Sure, but I've never seen you say Trump finished the war in Afghanistan either. Why aren't you giving Trump his due?

You mean giving Trump his due for surrendering the country to the Taliban?

[brenthutch 383]

Absolutely, he owns the good with the bad in regard to the US’s absence.  If bad actors run amok in Afghanistan in our absence, he owns it.   OTOH Biden owns the chaos of the hasty withdrawal.

Think about it. Had Trump been re-elected and given a withdrawal date of May 1, he would have likely started to remove civilians in February and March (when the Taliban was snowbound) giving much more time to get our citizens and our allies extricated.  Then would have had the additional month of April to deal w any unforeseen contingencies and avoided the spectacle of babies being thrown over (and sometimes into) concertina wire, and desperate people plunging to their deaths having futility clung to the landing gear of a C-17.

Edited September 1, 2021 by brenthutch

[Phil1111 908]

It seems as if many US presidents together with the higher up brass. All knew that lying to the American public was necessary regarding Afghanistan.

‘The Afghanistan Papers’ exposes the U.S.’s shaky Afghanistan strategy

"Despite American presidents and military leaders providing years of positive assessments that the U.S. was winning the war in Afghanistan, behind the scenes there were clear warnings of an unsuccessful end. Those stories of failure, corruption and lack of strategy are the focus of Craig Whitlock's discussion with Judy Woodruff and his new book "The Afghanistan Papers: A Secret History of the War."

For high ranking officers and Presidents. The first casualty of war was never laid bare for the public.

"A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable...those interviewed described explicit and sustained efforts by the U.S. government to deliberately mislead the public. They said it was common at military headquarters in Kabul — and at the White House — to distort statistics to make it appear the United States was winning the war when that was not the case.."

[brenthutch 383]

43 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

It seems as if many US presidents together with the higher up brass. All knew that lying to the American public was necessary regarding Afghanistan.

‘The Afghanistan Papers’ exposes the U.S.’s shaky Afghanistan strategy

"Despite American presidents and military leaders providing years of positive assessments that the U.S. was winning the war in Afghanistan, behind the scenes there were clear warnings of an unsuccessful end. Those stories of failure, corruption and lack of strategy are the focus of Craig Whitlock's discussion with Judy Woodruff and his new book "The Afghanistan Papers: A Secret History of the War."

For high ranking officers and Presidents. The first casualty of war was never laid bare for the public.

"A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable...those interviewed described explicit and sustained efforts by the U.S. government to deliberately mislead the public. They said it was common at military headquarters in Kabul — and at the White House — to distort statistics to make it appear the United States was winning the war when that was not the case.."

It’s just like the “body count” numbers being pushed by the Johnson administration.  I put most of the blame on Bush and the neo-cons/neo-McNaramans that were all too clever by half.

[ryoder 1,380]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

It seems as if many US presidents together with the higher up brass. All knew that lying to the American public was necessary regarding Afghanistan.

‘The Afghanistan Papers’ exposes the U.S.’s shaky Afghanistan strategy

"Despite American presidents and military leaders providing years of positive assessments that the U.S. was winning the war in Afghanistan, behind the scenes there were clear warnings of an unsuccessful end. Those stories of failure, corruption and lack of strategy are the focus of Craig Whitlock's discussion with Judy Woodruff and his new book "The Afghanistan Papers: A Secret History of the War."

For high ranking officers and Presidents. The first casualty of war was never laid bare for the public.

"A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable...those interviewed described explicit and sustained efforts by the U.S. government to deliberately mislead the public. They said it was common at military headquarters in Kabul — and at the White House — to distort statistics to make it appear the United States was winning the war when that was not the case.."

I read all 6 parts of Whitlock's 2019 last weekend. Holy crap. The situation was an order of magnitude worse than I had imagined. The entire Afghanistan political/military/business environment was a corruption machine designed for one purpose: to absorb the insane amounts of US money being poured into the country. And the corruption extended from the very top (e.g.Karzai), to the very bottom (e.g. the misfits who enlisted in the Afghan army, split as soon as they received their gear, then sold the uniforms and weapons, and re-enlisted and did it all over again). And the government we installed was not a democracy; It was a kleptocracy.

[jakee 1,254]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Think about it. Had Trump been re-elected and given a withdrawal date of May 1, he would have likely started to remove civilians in February and March (when the Taliban was snowbound) giving much more time to get our citizens and our allies extricated.  Then would have had the additional month of April to deal w any unforeseen contingencies and avoided the spectacle of babies being thrown over (and sometimes into) concertina wire, and desperate people plunging to their deaths having futility clung to the landing gear of a C-17.

You're living in a fantasy land.

[piisfish 135]

[Phil1111 908]

10 hours ago, ryoder said:

.... And the government we installed was not a democracy; It was a kleptocracy.

So the Taliban kept the lessons they learned from Russia!. Think President Putin. Kleptocracy. So just like the Pakistani state.

I still hear pundits parroting the "keep terrorism from coming to America line". Soon radical Islam will work its way north again. Perhaps Putin will be rewarded for his payments to the Taliban to kill Americans. Soon the Afghani's will be fighting each other and spreading Tehrik-e-Taliban militancy into Pakistan. Good on Pakistan. Its military and Inter-Services Intelligence services need a lesson.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

11 hours ago, jakee said:

You're living in a fantasy land.

Hi jakee,

Oh, come on; you know Trump told us he knew more than the generals did.

You did believe him, didn't you?

Jerry Baumchen

[Westerly 61]

who's trump? never heard of him.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Westerly