Need some advice on exits

[Babi 0]

I started SL last autumn and did 15 reasonably successful jumps before winter. My exits from Cessna 172 (with a ledge over the wheel) were O.K. I always landed softly on my but and I thought this was my biggest problem.

After 4 months of not jumping, I did 4 more jumps and each one was worse than the previous one. Yesterday, the last jump, I jumped from a different plane, a slightly bigger Cessna, C-206 (a ledge along the exit opening, doorway) and it was a disaster. I had lines around my head. It seems I am not strong enough to throw (push myself or whatever needs to be done) against the force of the air outside the plane. At my first attempt I was pushed back into the plane. Got scared, got mad, tried again and was blown away like a leaf. Any hints how I could conquer this one??

For some idiotic administrative reasons the first plane is grounded at the moment and there is no way of knowing when it will fly again, so my only choice is this other, bigger Cessna. This is already at a different DZ.

I don't have many options as far as the planes go, and, after all, if other jumpers can do it, why can't I??
AFF not an option as it is not allowed in my country.

Does anybody have any hints of how to overcome this??

[georgerussia 0]

How did you climb out? I was shown to move my right leg out first, put it on the side (closer to plane wing) of the ledge, then move my right hand out, hang the wind, move body out, hang the wing with left hand, move left leg out. During climb-out, try not to look down - look at the prop.

If I were you, I'd ask the instructor to show how to climb out, and do some ground practice. Had two of my AFF jumps from C-206, and one solo jump. Generally it is not easy to climb out, but the reward is that "exit" is much easier, just release your hands.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[phoenixlpr 0]

Consult with you instructor! C206 is a great plane to jump.
Its not the plane, its you.

[Babi 0]

I am not blaming the plane at all and I KNOW it is me. I am asking for help. How does everybody else do it? The way I was told and I practiced (a lot) on the ground does not work. My instructor would not let me into the plane if he was not happy with my performance on the ground.

The way GeorgeRussia describes is the way I was shown to do it on the 172 Cesna. I was scared to death but I did OK there.

My instructor was right there with me and he saw me, he knows I am trying and that I want to do it. I cannot do what he is asking of me.
I am sitting on the edge, facing direction of the flight, my left hand holding the edge of the opening, my right hand stretched behind me (I am only 1.6 m), holding on to the other side of the opening. My feet are on the ledge, I am almost crouching. No way can I push myself anywhere from this position, especially with a rig on my back.

[billvon 2,384]

1) Do you have a cargo door C206? (i.e. door not over the wheel but further back.) If so, they're a lot harder to exit from.

2) If it's a standard door C206, then I've found that much of the challenge is hand placement. If you can get your hands in the right place on the strut, you can use the muscles of your upper arms and thighs to get yourself out the door. Perhaps practicing this some more with your instructor, trying different hand positions, might help.

3) You might ask your instructor for a deeper cut, which might help reduce the amount of wind you feel.

[Orange1 0]

Hi Babi,

I had exactly the same issues - and I am your height my first few jumps i had bad exits too, i felt like i just could not push against that relative wind. i was taught to be really aggressive on exit - almost as though you are punching out at the wing with your right arm, swinging your hips to arch as you jump. i was also taught to be as square with the door as i could be i.e a straight line through my arms. do you have a mock-up for that plane you can practice from? i sat with an instructor on the mock-up doing it over and over and on about my 4th jump it finally "clicked".

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Babi 0]

Thank you Billvon and thank you Orange



For Billvon
1. The opening (no door) is just behind the wheel and one of my concerns was that I will hit it with my head (silly, I know, but on the ground things appear different).
2. Maybe, if I could hold my right arm a bit higher, shoulder height, this way I could have more spring in it. Will definitely try it on the ground. So some exercising in the gym will help.
3. "deeper cut" - I am not sure I understand this. It this when the engine goes quieter?? It always does on the smaller plane, but it did not at all on this one. I was thinking about it that this may help but I don't know if it is possible. On the other hand, the pilot knew he is carrying two SL jumpers, one of them was the first time jumper. So I assume this is not possible on this plane. I watched (from the ground) other jumpers and I didn't hear the engine go quiterer.

for Orange
Aggressive sounds good. Must keep that in mind the next time (if they let me back again). I was so scared that all my knowledge was forgotten. All I had in mind was to get out of that plane, one way or the other (pride).

We have a mock-up and I practiced there, I also practiced jumping from the plane while if was still on the ground.The wind makes all the difference.

Thank you guys for the advice. I will let you know how it goes the next time.

[billvon 2,384]

>(silly, I know, but on the ground things appear different).

Not silly at all. On the ground things ARE different; the landing gear is compressed by the weight of the plane.

>3. "deeper cut" - I am not sure I understand this. It this when the engine
>goes quieter??

Sort of. The pilot reduces airspeed/power to allow easier climbouts. On a fixed pitch prop (like a C172) this makes the engine pitch go down, but on a constant speed prop (like most C206's have) the engine may not change its note, although it will generally get a bit quieter.

You may be right; perhaps it's not SOP at this dropzone or something. Might be worth asking your JM about.

[bob.dino 0]

Quote

...SOP...

Just in case Natasa isn't familiar with US idioms, SOP = Standard Operating Procedure, or "what is normally done".

[Babi 0]

Thank you again, for taking the trouble to answer my questions.

I just spoke to my instructor and I asked him about the "cut" and he told me, that in fact the pilot did the "cut" when I first attempted to jump was blown back into the plane. It took me such a long time (didn't seem so) to get myself together for the second attempt, when the pilot assumed I am long gone from the plane and he actually accelerated.This is all good news to me because it can be prevented next time.

He also agrees with me that because of my height I don't have sufficient power to push myself with my right arm.

I am glad I talked to him but I am also glad that I received your posts first. I was afraid you will tell me to go golfing. All my life I wanted to do this and I am afraid someone will tell me that it is not for me. In my heart I know I can do it and I'll keep on trying.

To Bob: thank you for explaining the SOP to me. I didn't know. I am having difficulties understanding the terminology and it is so much easier when someone tells you. I am creating my own vocabulary of parachute terms and there are still a lot of blanks.

Once again many thanks to all of you who have answered my post. You have been very helpful.

Natasa

[skyflyerh 0]

I did all my static line jumps from a C206 the first few jumps were disaster but once you get it you'll be fine. Im small to and I was getting fustrated that i couldn't get it right. Then after practicing on the ground, getting myself right on the edge of the door and i mean right on the edge of the door only the left side of my bum and upper thigh are on the plane my legs were right back toes pointed and your shoulders nearly square looking in at the pilot i got it and the minute i left the plane i knew it was right. Do the practice on the mock up and GET YOUR INSTRUCTOR TO WATCH IT ALL then when your happy, try to relax go up dont concentrate to much on getting it right in the plane just go and do what you did on the ground. Once it clicks , that will be it. Good luck

[riggerrob 558]

An extra step complicates the exit from cargo-door Cessna 206.
When I taught from a cargo-door 206 (with step completely removed) I taught students to do most of their arch before leaving the plane. They sat on the door sill and hang their right leg completely outside the airplane, trailing, in an arch. They kept their right hand on the rear door frame and pivoted their shoulders forward, so they were parrellel with the wing.
In other words, most of the right half of their body was arched.
Their left hand shifted to the door sill so they could use it as a pivot when they pushed off.
When they pushed off, they pushed off with their left hand, punched their right hand towards the wing tip and straightened their left leg into an arch.
Since I am not sure how this will work with a large step, you will have to discuss the finer points with your local instructor.

[bob.dino 0]

Quote

To Bob: thank you for explaining the SOP to me. I didn't know. I am having difficulties understanding the terminology and it is so much easier when someone tells you. I am creating my own vocabulary of parachute terms and there are still a lot of blanks.

Not a problem. There's a glossary on this website (though it's not all that easy to find!).

If you've any problems with terminology feel free to send me a Private Message (click on the messages link near the top of this page). If I don't know what it means, I'll find someone that does...

Welcome to skydiving

• Quote

[Babi 0]

Thank you for the advice. I could not hold myself in the wind, not even for a fraction of a second. This is what happened at my first attempt. As soon as some of my body was out, the wind pushed me back. Maybe more cut would really help. I discussed this with my instructor.

All my training is done by my instructor watching me. I trust him. I know he is very conscientious person and takes his job very seriously and is aware of his responsibility.

[Babi 0]

Thank you riggerrob for the input. The opening is so wide that when I touch both sides my arms are almost fully extended. If I try to turn my shoulders, I have to stretch my arms and then I have nothing push myself with. Arms to short.

When I spoke to my instructor yesterday he told me that he is thinking of trying to arrange additional handle for me to hold. We are guests at this drop zone and I feel I am to much work for them all.

But I shall keep in mind what you have told me. Thanks again.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

I am sitting on the edge, facing direction of the flight, my left hand holding the edge of the opening, my right hand stretched behind me (I am only 1.6 m), holding on to the other side of the opening. My feet are on the ledge, I am almost crouching. No way can I push myself anywhere from this position, especially with a rig on my back.

I am 1.6 too, and actually it is much easier for us smaller people to climb out (I was watching one of my skydiving friends climbing out of this 206, it sucks to be so big). Did you get your right hand on the wing? Did you wear gloves, and aren't they slippery?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Babi 0]

I know of the glossary, thank you, and I have it printed out and keep it handy. But of course it is not complete. I think that a rig with all its parts has more components than a car!!! I've been looking into a possibility of buying one and was not able to make much sense of it.
This is really nice of you to offer to help me with the terminology. I shall keep you very busy, I promise.

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

Thank you riggerrob for the input. The opening is so wide that when I touch both sides my arms are almost fully extended. If I try to turn my shoulders, I have to stretch my arms and then I have nothing push myself with. Arms to short.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

In that case, grab the TOP of the door frame with your left hand. Keep your right hand on the rear door frame. The trick is to position yourself far enough forward that your container does not contact the rear door frame, but close enough that you can still push off with your right arm.
Start with your shoulders leaning forward - into the wind. As you push off the airplane, shift the focus to pushing your hips into the wind.

• Quote

[Babi 0]

I don't touch the wing at all, it is too far. Your way is like our C172. I used to complain about it, too, that it takes to long and I get scared, but in fact, now I see, it is a lot easier for a weak person. You just let go, with a sight push.

I suppose it comes down to what I am used to. Any change upsets a beginner like me. I usually wear gloves, but for my 16, 17 and 18 jump I forgot to bring them with me and it interfered with my concentration.

[Babi 0]

Left hand on the top, I think this just might work. Thanks.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

. The opening is so wide that when I touch both sides my arms are almost fully extended.

same here... btw georgerussia, i have to disagree, our DZ definitely found that smaller people had more trouble with a 206 exit.

re the advice about sitting as far out the door as you can... speak to your instructor. i got conflicting advice about this from different instructors! one told me to do that, when i did that on the next jump the JM dispatching me said that by going so far out I was almost being overbalanced by the rig on my back.

i remember the first time i did a good exit, i thought it was a fluke! then it just kept happening

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[fallfast69 2]

I'll try to explain how I used to put S/L students out of our 206 with a cargo door. Keep in mind, you must be aggressive as you maneuver yourself to the door. There is a lot of wind pushing against you, but it really isn't as much as your mind tells you it is and you must over come the mental portion for this technique to work properly. ***You MUST have your instructor buy off on this technique***

Once the command is given to move to the door, you need to position yourself in such a manner that your left butt cheek is about all that is sitting in the plane. This starts to face you into the relative wind. Your hands should be at your side holding the floor at the edge. Your eyes need to look at the area where the strut attaches to wing.

Once the command to go is given, use you right hand for a little push as you "butt hop" out the door while rotating the rest of your upper body into the relative wind.
As you are falling away from the plane, your left hand and arm are automatically being brought into an arch position because you do not take your hand off the edge of the floor until it is pulled from there. You are effectively using your left arm as a pivot away from the plane. At the same time your right hand and arm should start moving to its arch position. It is best if the right arm is a little late than early because it will spin you to the right.

One thing that bares repeating is to keep looking at the strut/wing area of the plane as you make your exit.

[riggerrob 558]

re the advice about sitting as far out the door as you can... speak to your instructor. i got conflicting advice about this from different instructors! one told me to do that, when i did that on the next jump the JM dispatching me said that by going so far out I was almost being OVERBALANCED by the rig on my back.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That is the whole idea. Slide so far out that you are tettering on the edge, so that you only need a 2 pound (1 kg) push to get off the airplane.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

That is the whole idea. Slide so far out that you are tettering on the edge, so that you only need a 2 pound (1 kg) push to get off the airplane.

yes, but the point about "overbalancing" though was the rig seemed to pull me as i left and i ended up de-arching in consequence. or anyway that was how the JM saw it happen, at that point all i knew is i kept on trying to do it right and kept on f^#%ing it up. i found some kind of happy medium eventually of being far out enough but not too much... needless to say i enjoy diving out that door far more than i ever did doing a poised sitting exit!!!!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.